BATF seizes 30 toy guns! - Page 2
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Thread: BATF seizes 30 toy guns!

  1. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by HK4U View Post
    Randy Weavers wife was shot by the feds because they thought the baby she was holding in her arms was a gun. Perhaps they don't know what real guns look like.
    +1. Agreed.

    I just saw this story on the news tonight when I got home frome the gym. What a joke.

  2.   
  3. #12
    Well to be truthful they were shooting at Randy who was running to the door. Sad, but often the truth is a bit more complicated than what we'd like to believe. Ruby Ridge was an overall awful mess. Poorly trained agents, needless deaths and nothing to show for it. But to be fair, everything that happened ultimately falls on Randy's shoulders. He was an AB member who sold illegal firearms and refused to go to court. Instead of spending five years in jail he holed up in a cabin, and got his wife and son killed.

    Did the agents act with gross negligence. Of course, and they should have gone to jail for shooting the wife and Randy in the back. However Randy should have surrendered, or if he wanted to die in a firefight send his family away. As a husband and father your duty is to protect your family first and yourself second.
    Accipere quam facere praestat injuriam

  4. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by MightyPirate View Post
    Well to be truthful they were shooting at Randy who was running to the door. Sad, but often the truth is a bit more complicated than what we'd like to believe. Ruby Ridge was an overall awful mess. Poorly trained agents, needless deaths and nothing to show for it. But to be fair, everything that happened ultimately falls on Randy's shoulders. He was an AB member who sold illegal firearms and refused to go to court. Instead of spending five years in jail he holed up in a cabin, and got his wife and son killed.

    Did the agents act with gross negligence. Of course, and they should have gone to jail for shooting the wife and Randy in the back. However Randy should have surrendered, or if he wanted to die in a firefight send his family away. As a husband and father your duty is to protect your family first and yourself second.
    The government knew that there were innocents on site. There was no reason to storm the cabin. They had the manpower and resources to wait it out. They chose not to. Randy Weaver is partly responsible for the death of his wife and son, however I feel the government has the greater responsibility. They fired the fatal shots, they were negligent in their actions.

    I'm not condoning the actions of a criminal, simply stating that this is a classic case of government gone mad. Ultimately the government needs to be held accountable to the same if not higher standards than your average citizen.



    gf
    "A few well placed shots with a .22LR is a lot better than a bunch of solid misses with a .44 mag!" Glock Armorer, NRA Chief RSO, Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, Muzzleloading Rifle, Muzzleloading Shotgun, and Home Firearm Safety Training Counselor

  5. #14
    Well clearly they went mad, but it originally started when two armed men shot one of their agents. One can debate who fired the first shot, no one can say for any certainty who did except those that survived who were there. Considering both have conflicting reports it's hard to say with any accuracy. If you set fire to a lion's tail and the lion mauls you who do you blame? Though we are in agreement on one thing, the agents who fired those shots were criminally negligent.

    Back on topic. When I was little I turned a nerf gun into a pretty deadly dart gun. Perhaps if one were to put sharp airsoft pellets in those guns you could put someone's eye out?
    Accipere quam facere praestat injuriam

  6. #15
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    One could make a shot gun out of a piece of pipe. So I guess the BATF will start removing plumbing items from hardware stores.
    Suppose you were an idiot, and suppose you were a member of Congress;
    but I repeat myself.
    Mark Twain

  7. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by MightyPirate View Post
    Well clearly they went mad, but it originally started when two armed men shot one of their agents. One can debate who fired the first shot, no one can say for any certainty who did except those that survived who were there. Considering both have conflicting reports it's hard to say with any accuracy. If you set fire to a lion's tail and the lion mauls you who do you blame? Though we are in agreement on one thing, the agents who fired those shots were criminally negligent.

    Back on topic. When I was little I turned a nerf gun into a pretty deadly dart gun. Perhaps if one were to put sharp airsoft pellets in those guns you could put someone's eye out?
    I have heard that when the shooter was on the stand and asked if he had any remorse for killing her that he stated his only remorse was that he did not kill them all. That statement itself in my opinion speaks volumes.
    By faith Noah,being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear,prepared an ark to the saving of his house;by the which he condemned the world,and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith Heb.11:7

  8. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigSlick View Post
    One could make a shot gun out of a piece of pipe. So I guess the BATF will start removing plumbing items from hardware stores.
    I guess its really amazing the BATFE has not outlawed Ruger 1022s. They truly are simple to convert to full auto, and detailed instructions are widely available.

    bill

  9. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by HK4U View Post
    I have heard that when the shooter was on the stand and asked if he had any remorse for killing her that he stated his only remorse was that he did not kill them all. That statement itself in my opinion speaks volumes.
    While I have not heard that, and while I have no respect for the man he's been vilified beyond logic, he is an awful human being but not to the extent some people want to believe. I remember back during the DC sniper shootings they were a lot of people that thought Lon was behind the whole thing. But then again, I've also heard theories that JFK was an alien so I'm very rarely shocked by conspiracy theories.

    I would think, if he had said something that awful it would have been reported about it. Considering the high profile of the case he would have been crucified for saying such comments. And while he may have felt them, I have no doubt he was extensively coached on what to say during the trial. And it apparently worked considering the snake never spent a day in jail. For Ruby Ridge or Waco (yeah he was there too). I fail to see how manslaughter charges were the only charges ever filed against them, and even something as light as that couldn't stick.

    And I can understand why people want to believe some people are just completely evil, it makes things easier to accept. It's easier to swallow that a man was evil, than an agency made numerous mistakes and was willingly negligent. The world is much nicer when viewed in black and white, but when you really look at things there are numerous shades of grey.
    Accipere quam facere praestat injuriam

  10. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by MightyPirate View Post
    While I have not heard that, and while I have no respect for the man he's been vilified beyond logic, he is an awful human being but not to the extent some people want to believe. I remember back during the DC sniper shootings they were a lot of people that thought Lon was behind the whole thing. But then again, I've also heard theories that JFK was an alien so I'm very rarely shocked by conspiracy theories.

    I would think, if he had said something that awful it would have been reported about it. Considering the high profile of the case he would have been crucified for saying such comments. And while he may have felt them, I have no doubt he was extensively coached on what to say during the trial. And it apparently worked considering the snake never spent a day in jail. For Ruby Ridge or Waco (yeah he was there too). I fail to see how manslaughter charges were the only charges ever filed against them, and even something as light as that couldn't stick.

    And I can understand why people want to believe some people are just completely evil, it makes things easier to accept. It's easier to swallow that a man was evil, than an agency made numerous mistakes and was willingly negligent. The world is much nicer when viewed in black and white, but when you really look at things there are numerous shades of grey.
    I believe not only BO Gritz made mention of his statement but that Randy Weavers attorney in his book about the case also mentioned it. As far as nothing being done about it there have been a lot of things that the government has done over the years and glossed over.
    By faith Noah,being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear,prepared an ark to the saving of his house;by the which he condemned the world,and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith Heb.11:7

  11. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by HK4U View Post
    As far as nothing being done about it there have been a lot of things that the government has done over the years and glossed over.
    Don't see how anyone could disagree with that. Although, I'll draw issue with the phrase "glossed over", solely as a matter of semantics, because it sounds like hiding a little mistake that someone made. I would have said "lied about" or "buried", for starters. but, that's just me...

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