How would you have reacted to this??? - Page 2
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Thread: How would you have reacted to this???

  1. #11
    handgonnetoter Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by ecocks View Post
    I don't necessarily agree with a blanket statement that a threat moving away from you is not a threat. Too much is dependent on the exact situation encountered. The guy could very well exit the car, turn back and shoot, reasoning that he doesn't want witnesses and didn't want your blood or brains to splatter on him in the confines of the vehicle. When drugs are involved and the individual is not thinking straight, they can reach decisions and take actions that are not reasoned or even fully controlled physically. Someone else could be there (at the destination) telling him to elminate witnesses or get your wallet, get that ring he saw on your finger, take your kid, whatever.

    Simply, like so many of these scenarios, it is impossible to know the exact details of how you would react based on the criminal's behavior, the environment, your level of training, where your firearm is located, etc.
    I agree. Years ago another guy and I were mugged at gun point in Detroit. We were on our way to get our physicals for the service. I did not have a gun, as they did not issue permits back then. Even if I would have been carrying, the chances of me being able to get my gun into action - his gun was about two feet away from our faces - were small. He had our butts dead to rights. We lost our money, but not our lives. Some situations will allow us to deploy our weapons in time, others don't. I would have been mad enough to shoot that car jacker in the back, but I don't know if I would have or not. If he were facing me with gun in hand - and I had the opportunity - in a heart beat. Lets just hope and pray that if we ever find ourselves in such a pickle, we react in such a way that we stand our ground properly without landing ourselves in jail.

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  3. Having now taken 3 ccw classes in the last 3 months, we most certainly do not have the express authority to shoot to kill, only to stop. If they stop because they are dead, then that is the risk that they took when the instigated the aggression. A lawful shooting is one where we intended only to stop the threat and it must be immediately related to a threat to great bodily harm or death. If the threat is leaving the car, you will be on very shaky ground to say the threat was still imminent and may actually be considered murder especially if you have stated in public that is what you would do in that circumstance. In addition, preventing future crimes is NOT an authorized CCW right either. What we say on public forums can and have in certain cases come back to haunt the person who stated them. THe last class I took in Las Vegas really brought home how great a responsibility we have with CCW permits. That should permeate our public forum talks as well. It is discoverable evidence mind you should some one want to know what you really think about different situations.

  4. #13
    wolfhunter Guest
    So far, the responses to the OP have been, "It wouldn't happen to me because..." and "I'd do as directed until I can (slam on the brakes & risk getting shot while disarming him) or (Shoot him in the back after he gets out)"

    The first set of answers ignore the posed question. The second set falls into the two variants I've mentioned. The first of these keeps the answerer at risk through out the scenario with increased risk at the point of action against the BG. The second poses huge legal issues. All of these answers are full of macho bravado and wishful seen-it-in-a-movie thoughts.

    If, as in the OP, the BG is pointing a gun and getting in before you've spotted them, do as you're told! Once the BG is IN your car, pointing a gun, you are a hostage. Observe the BG for identifying marks, jewelry, clothing, hair style/color, size/build, etc. When the BG gets out of your vehicle, observe where they go and the vehicle/building they go into. Yes, get your weapon out in case the BG decides to eliminate a witness, but that's it. Once you can discretely and safely call 911, give them the information you've gathered.

  5. #14
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    Finally, this response is on point, as to ‘What would you do?’. I agree, once I have a gun pointed at me, I would comply unless I felt the situation was absolutely critical i.e. forced to go down some desolate road whereby the BG was likely to kill me. Then, I would take my chances and do whatever comes to mind in a strictly 'do or die' choice. As I learned in the military, the best chance of escape is in the first few seconds or minutes...
    “Monsters are real and so are ghosts. They live inside of us, and sometimes they win.”
    ~ Stephen King

  6. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by HK4U View Post
    First he would not get in my car because I keep the doors locked. Second I am always armed. I may not have been able to pull may gun at first but when he turned his back on me to exit the car I would do my best to make sure he never got the chance to car jack someone else.
    HK, if I remember correctly, you claim to be a former law enforcement officer with many years of experience. Let me get this straight, you are advising civilians to back shoot a felon who is leaving the scene of the crime? Is a police officer allowed to back shoot escaping felons if they pose no threat?

    IMO, the time for DGU has passed. The bad guy leaving your vehicle is clearly not a threat. While car jacking is a most serious felony, IMO, one is allowed to use DGU, to prevent the crime, not to catch the criminal.

  7. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by theicemanmpls View Post
    HK, if I remember correctly, you claim to be a former law enforcement officer with many years of experience. Let me get this straight, you are advising civilians to back shoot a felon who is leaving the scene of the crime? Is a police officer allowed to back shoot escaping felons if they pose no threat?

    IMO, the time for DGU has passed. The bad guy leaving your vehicle is clearly not a threat. While car jacking is a most serious felony, IMO, one is allowed to use DGU, to prevent the crime, not to catch the criminal.
    Read the Texas penal code from cover to cover. Let me know what you find.
    By faith Noah,being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear,prepared an ark to the saving of his house;by the which he condemned the world,and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith Heb.11:7

  8. #17
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    I keep the doors locked so entry would have been difficult.

    If he had raised the gun in the window I'd be on the gas, car in front of me or not. Get some attention!! and get moving away from the threat. If there were no car in front of me problem solved. Stop just up the road a piece and call police. Keep an eye on the jackass and wait for the police to arrive.

    If he failed to get you the next person to the light will be his next victim possibly. If he does get into another car by force follow that other can and stay on the line with police directing them.

    Yea, lots of variables involved here. I took my best "shot" at it...

    Peace...
    You can give peace a chance alright..

    I'll seek cover in case it goes badly..

  9. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by theicemanmpls View Post
    HK, if I remember correctly, you claim to be a former law enforcement officer with many years of experience. Let me get this straight, you are advising civilians to back shoot a felon who is leaving the scene of the crime? Is a police officer allowed to back shoot escaping felons if they pose no threat?

    IMO, the time for DGU has passed. The bad guy leaving your vehicle is clearly not a threat. While car jacking is a most serious felony, IMO, one is allowed to use DGU, to prevent the crime, not to catch the criminal.
    I had this discussion with a LEO I know and it was filled with what if's.

    If the police officer has reason to believe that the fleeing suspect is a danger to others than a judgment can be made to use force.
    The decision was upheld.

    Tennessee v. Garner, 471 U.S. 1 (1985)[1], was a case in which the Supreme Court of the United States held that under the Fourth Amendment, when a law enforcement officer is pursuing a fleeing suspect, he or she may use deadly force only to prevent escape if the officer has probable cause to believe that the suspect poses a significant threat of death or serious physical injury to the officer or others.

    In the case written about here in this post, the suspect was described as being armed and used the gun in commission of a felony. I would consider that a reason for use of force and I believe a jury would as well. The fact that a gun was pointed at me, be it loaded or unloaded, I consider that an act of aggression. I don't read minds I read actions... His intent was to shoot...

    Peace...
    You can give peace a chance alright..

    I'll seek cover in case it goes badly..

  10. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by 6shootercarry View Post
    I had this discussion with a LEO I know and it was filled with what if's.

    If the police officer has reason to believe that the fleeing suspect is a danger to others than a judgment can be made to use force.
    The decision was upheld.

    Tennessee v. Garner, 471 U.S. 1 (1985)[1], was a case in which the Supreme Court of the United States held that under the Fourth Amendment, when a law enforcement officer is pursuing a fleeing suspect, he or she may use deadly force only to prevent escape if the officer has probable cause to believe that the suspect poses a significant threat of death or serious physical injury to the officer or others.

    In the case written about here in this post, the suspect was described as being armed and used the gun in commission of a felony. I would consider that a reason for use of force and I believe a jury would as well. The fact that a gun was pointed at me, be it loaded or unloaded, I consider that an act of aggression. I don't read minds I read actions... His intent was to shoot...

    Peace...
    Good points. I will also add that what a person can and can not do varies quite a bit by where he lives. For instance what a law abiding citizens can do here might get you thrown in jail in CA. In Texas we are less tolerant of criminals. Quite a few years back, I think it might have even been before we had the right to carry, a man was sitting in his truck in the parking lot of a local mall. He witnessed a man shoot and kill a woman and take off in his vehicle. The citizen pulled out his 44 mag and shot and killed the shooter as he was attempting to leave the scene. The guy had no legal reason at the time to be carrying a hand gun and yet he was no billed by the grand jury. Heck he might even been given an award by the police dept. I don't know.
    By faith Noah,being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear,prepared an ark to the saving of his house;by the which he condemned the world,and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith Heb.11:7

  11. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by ecocks View Post
    I don't necessarily agree with a blanket statement that a threat moving away from you is not a threat. Too much is dependent on the exact situation encountered. The guy could very well exit the car, turn back and shoot, reasoning that he doesn't want witnesses and didn't want your blood or brains to splatter on him in the confines of the vehicle. When drugs are involved and the individual is not thinking straight, they can reach decisions and take actions that are not reasoned or even fully controlled physically. Someone else could be there (at the destination) telling him to elminate witnesses or get your wallet, get that ring he saw on your finger, take your kid, whatever.

    Simply, like so many of these scenarios, it is impossible to know the exact details of how you would react based on the criminal's behavior, the environment, your level of training, where your firearm is located, etc.
    +1 Very well put.
    NRA Certified Instructor
    US Army Retired
    Prior Federal Police Officer Instructor

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