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Thread: OC or CC?

  1. #11
    handgonnetoter Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by father-of-three View Post
    I have heard people on this site talk about open carry in Pennsylvania, but I, myself, have never seen it, except with a holiday parade participant. Pennsylvania is a state where it is not legally prohibited, but there is also no specific law for it either. It is my understanding that open carry is specifically disallowed in the city of Philadelphia. Open carry on one's business and residence is allowed in Pennsylvania.

    If properly prepared for, I would think that concealed carry can be just a quick and effective as open carry.
    Father-of-three, my wife and I make trips occasionally to PA. She is from New Castle, and has some family in Red Lion. We live in IN and it says that PA and IN recognize each others permits. Do you know if PA has some laws or restrictions that would effect my permit in PA?

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  3. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by handgonnetoter View Post
    Father-of-three, my wife and I make trips occasionally to PA. She is from New Castle, and has some family in Red Lion. We live in IN and it says that PA and IN recognize each others permits. Do you know if PA has some laws or restrictions that would effect my permit in PA?
    It should not effect your ability to conceal carry. Ohio does not have reciprocity with either Pennsylvania or Indiana, so it would be prudent to see what Ohio's laws are regarding automobile carry, etc. Just be aware of any differeing laws regarding use of force, castle dostrine, etc. Pennsylvania currently has a weak castle doctrine law, but that may change in the very near future. Pennsylvania's current law basically say that if you can retreat, you must retreat.

  4. #13
    Join Date
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    The only way that I OC is wearing my New Ruger Vaquero stainless .357 with custom ivory grips, carried in a black High Plains Drifter Rig lined with silver bullets. The only stares are from people drooling with envy and the only comments are,wow, that's beautiful, awesome, and, look honey isn't that sweet. Something special about the old west gun & rig that frightens no one, and all comments are complimentary.
    In America today, it's considered worse to judge evil than to do evil. Never let these Christophobic Liberal Progressive Purveyors of Infanticide & Homosexual Perversion who always manipulate truth to be hate speech set the terms in a debate.

  5. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by father-of-three View Post
    I have heard people on this site talk about open carry in Pennsylvania, but I, myself, have never seen it, except with a holiday parade participant. Pennsylvania is a state where it is not legally prohibited, but there is also no specific law for it either.
    Correct, the law is silent on open carry in Pennsylvania, but I think it is worth noting that laws are typically not written to permit behavior, but to restrict it, hence, you do not need a law specifically "allowing" it.


    Quote Originally Posted by father-of-three View Post
    It is my understanding that open carry is specifically disallowed in the city of Philadelphia.
    Not true. Philadelphia is a city of the first class in Pennsylvania and PA's Uniform Firearms act requires one to have a PA License To Carry Firearms (LTCF) for either open or conceal carry in Philadelphia.


    18 Pa.C.S. 6108: Carrying firearms on public streets or public property in Philadelphia
    No person shall carry a firearm, rifle or shotgun at any time upon the public streets or upon any public property in a city of the first class unless:
    (1) such person is licensed to carry a firearm; or
    (2) such person is exempt from licensing under section 6106 of this title (relating to firearms not to be carried without a license).
    *emphasis added by me.

    Quote Originally Posted by father-of-three View Post
    Open carry on one's business and residence is allowed in Pennsylvania.
    ...and anywhere else you can walk, with few exceptions, ie, courthouses, post offices, school zones, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by father-of-three View Post
    If properly prepared for, I would think that concealed carry can be just a quick and effective as open carry.
    To each his own. Personally, I'm just happy to hear that others are exercising their 2a rights, however they wish to carry. I open carry everywhere I go, but PA is a big state. It's understandable that you might not have seen me!

  6. #15
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    Thanks to ALL for not turning this into a CC vs. OC debate! Curmudgeon said it perfectly - glad that more people are excercising their 2A rights, however they decide to carry. THAT's the mindest I like to see!

    Back OT. The OP mentioned that he CC's a lot, so it's safe to assume he's got a CPL. ...And with a CPL, one can OC into the majority of PFZ's in Michigan. Just saying that there are some places that you're not allowed to conceal, even with a CPL... but, with a CPL, one may OC. Screwy, I know...but worth knowing. There's not all THAT much legalese you need to know to be able to confidently OC. If I can retain that information, most anyone can. Plus, to cover your ass with both hands, it's recommended to carry a digital voice/audio recorder when OCing... at least in places you think you're more likely to have a LEO encounter. They've become valuable tools that have shown just how LEOs can try to violate your rights. Again, chances of this happening are becoming smaller, but still better to be prepared.

    It seems that the vast majority of LEOs don't have a problem with OC but there are always the few who may give you problems. As long as you're obeying the law, you're good-to-go. Be cool, responsible, and respectful, and know that you're not breaking the law.

    OC takes some getting used to. By and large, it goes totally unnoticed, amazingly enough. From day 1, I've been amazed at just how many people don't even notice - sometimes LEOs included. When it is noticed, it usually only causes a double-take. Rarely you'll get a comment, and even then, the majority of comments are to the positive. Best way to get used to OC is by taking baby-steps. Start with OCing to your most frequently visitied convenience store, and/or gas station. Then somewhere else that you're comfortable with. It will start feeling more regular and natural the more you do it. Just be confident and keep your situational awareness high.
    Don't do anything you wouldn't want to explain to the paramedics...

  7. #16
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    I like this discussion. I'm from Michigan, there has been a lot of headway in educating LEO's about OC. I have not had an LEO encounter yet. I'm always polite, respectful and aware of the difficult position OC may cause a LEO. They really do run into BG's that want to kill them. If I put myself in an LEO's shoes caution would be the operative word. It's not really wise to think every man that OC's is a good guy.

    I think it is much smarter to CC, however there are times it is difficult to accomplish. If I wear a suit I don't wear the jacket in the car. If I need gas that exposes my firearm. If I go to dinner and don't want to wear a baggy shirt, removing my coat exposes my firearm. I walked into a Subway to get a sub once. The one thing I noticed was I scared people. I'm not really sure I like that part of OC.

    I guess my point is as long as CC works for the situation it's probably wiser to CC.

  8. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by SSBN620Gold View Post
    I like this discussion. I'm from Michigan, there has been a lot of headway in educating LEO's about OC. I have not had an LEO encounter yet. I'm always polite, respectful and aware of the difficult position OC may cause a LEO. They really do run into BG's that want to kill them. If I put myself in an LEO's shoes caution would be the operative word. It's not really wise to think every man that OC's is a good guy.

    I think it is much smarter to CC, however there are times it is difficult to accomplish. If I wear a suit I don't wear the jacket in the car. If I need gas that exposes my firearm. If I go to dinner and don't want to wear a baggy shirt, removing my coat exposes my firearm. I walked into a Subway to get a sub once. The one thing I noticed was I scared people. I'm not really sure I like that part of OC.

    I guess my point is as long as CC works for the situation it's probably wiser to CC.
    I won't address one method being "wiser" than another. Again, back to being personal choice, both with pluses and minuses. Location has a lot of bearing also. The one thing you said that surprised me is that you said it scared people in Subway. REALLY? I've OC'd essentially everywhere, and frequently, and have never seen a real fearful reaction. I've always expected to, but never have. The ONLY negative reaction I've ever gotten was a few glares, and once, a couple at a restaurant moved to another table, further from me. They didn't even leave, just moved.

    After some thought, I've decided that how people react to my carrying is their business, not mine. If it actually scares them, I feel that the problem isn't my carrying a pistol, but rather their inability to rationally control their emotion or fear over an object. I see it as my right and my responsibility to carry. I won't change my behavior to accomodate strangers' feelings when I know that what I'm doing is right. But again, I haven't seen that type of reaction to my OC. Oh, wait, there's one other negative reaction I forgot - a guy behind the counter at Burger King froze up on me when he saw it. I just smiled, waited for him to compose himself, and ordered, paid, and left. For those who are fearful of the mere sight of a gun, the best thing to do is be professional and kind and courteous, and that helps in our cause. Enough exposure like that and they'll realize that having or wearing a gun doesn't make someone bad. Hopefully it might provoke the thought that they may even be a good thing, to protect people from those who may do harm unto them. So there's my $.02.
    Don't do anything you wouldn't want to explain to the paramedics...

  9. #18
    I do both. Nobody says "boo" when I open carry. Works for me. I'm starting to like OC more than CC as it seems to be less hassle. As per perceived tactical advantages/disadvantages, frankly I don't worry about it. Situational awareness is the key now matter how you carry.
    Prov. 27:3 - "Stone is heavy and sand a burden, but provocation by a fool is heavier than both"

  10. #19
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    Wow, learning alot here, I was a bit hesitant to ask the question, OC or CC, thought it might be a "blood bath" here. Anyways, thank you all for the input.
    What is the best way to react to an LEO encounter? If he asks for my CPL, do I reach for my wallet and give it to him, or politely ask him to retrieve my wallet for me? Id hate to get shot with some rookie thinking Im reaching for the gun.
    Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you, Jesus Christ and the American Soldier....One died for your soul; the other for your freedom.

  11. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Itstjs View Post
    Wow, learning alot here, I was a bit hesitant to ask the question, OC or CC, thought it might be a "blood bath" here. Anyways, thank you all for the input.
    What is the best way to react to an LEO encounter? If he asks for my CPL, do I reach for my wallet and give it to him, or politely ask him to retrieve my wallet for me? Id hate to get shot with some rookie thinking Im reaching for the gun.
    If it was me, I'd tell LEO where it was, and then slowly retreive it. I don't want LEO reaching into my pockets because that suggests to me that you've given them permission to search your person. I"m not an attorney and don't know this for a fact (and I have nothing to hide), but just on general principle, I"m not gonna allow LEO any power over what is legal and constitutional.
    Prov. 27:3 - "Stone is heavy and sand a burden, but provocation by a fool is heavier than both"

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