So what would you do?
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Thread: So what would you do?

  1. #1
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    So what would you do?

    I was watching one of those amazing shocking video shows last night and one of the scenarios had me thinking. So I figured Id share and see what you would do in this situation.

    The scenario happened in a pizza shop in, I believe, Akron Ohio. There are 6 to 8 people waiting in line when this woman walks in. She cuts in line and one of the customer say something about it to the person hes talking to on the phone. Well, she blows up yelling at him and spits in the owner face. She leaves long enough to get her 6 4, if I remember right, 300 pound boyfriend. They return to the shop were she start poking the guy on the cell phone in the face. He gets pissed slams his phone down. This is when the boyfriend sucker punches him and just starts pummeling him. Not once did the guy try to block anything (sucker punch rocked him good!) or return the blow. It was sad that no one in the shop stepped up to help this guy. I mean 3 or 4 of the other men could have ended this quickly.

    I know state law would play into your action but say your state has a right to defend yourself or others from great bodily harm or death. So what do you do?? I mean the guy wasnt armed but the other poor guy sustained a broken eye socket among other injuries.

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  3. #2
    That's a tough one. You don't want to be an instigator, (and there are juries out there that would make you out to be one). On the other hand, we shouldn't be expected to let people walk all over us. I think once the punch flew, self defense would be in order. Amazing that no else in line attempted to intervene. Sad society in which we live.

  4. #3
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    I saw that same show - it was messed up! Hard to believe that nobody in that shop would help... I'm a newb at ccw, so I'm curious as to the best way to handle this type of situaiton as well...
    My Website: Nerd with a .45

  5. What would you do?

    This is tough, unfortunately scenarios of this nature are happening all over the country.
    According to Utah law, we may use our weapon in the defense of self, property or others. I certainly wouldn't be able to go into this situation using my fists, or trying to separate this imbecile from the victim. The proper thing to do is yell to the proprietor to call the police & yell, to get the deranged perps attention, for him to cease and desist or you will have to shoot. While at the same time pulling your weapon from as safe a distance as possible. Then tell the proprietor that you have a legal ccw and to let the police know this as you will have the perp at gun point when they arrive.
    When police arrive, obey orders and show id when requested. Then just be a good witness. After all, we have the right to do this in the state as well as the right to make citizens arrests and detain for the police.
    If the perp kept attacking then the correct thing to do is fire--this is in self defense of another and is legal. Just be prepared for any legalities that may be brought up and know your state laws.

  6. #5
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    (sucker punch rocked him good!)
    Game over! Nothing the victim CAN do. The focus here should be on what he should have done before things escalated...like take at least evasive action when the boyfriend came through the door. IF the victim had been a CCW holder, this would have been the time to gain some distance and, as things got more heated, at least prepare to go to the hip. Also, the distance and elevated level of alertness should have had him call for a cop (to the store people) before it got out of hand.

    At the same time, these two attackers could just be losers who need to be removed from society. I don't remember seeing it...were they apprehended? Any video/newslinks related to this?
    NRA Life; GOA Life; CCRKBA Life; Trustee, NJCSD; F&AM: 32 & KT
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    When Seconds Count...The Police are only MINUTES Away!

  7. #6
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    Great input so far guys.....

    Youtube have to love it! Here is a link to see the altercation I mentioned:

    YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

    Oh and EKTARR I do believe they catch and charged both the man and woman. Suprise Suprise he was already a felon that had served jail time.

  8. #7
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    Also let me add I was looking at this scenario more of what if I was at the store but not the one being assulted.

  9. #8
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    My two cents...

    It is a questionable one.

    Person A: Person who did the sucker punch.
    Person B: Cell phone talker.

    First of all you're dealing with the typical standard of use of lethal force. After the first punch was dealt there is an argument that B or a third party could have used lethal force under the premise of fearing great bodily injury. I would be surprised if B did not suffer serious bodily injury. If A did end up doing felony time for the incident then obviously there was serious bodily injury or possible death of B.

    You're also dealing with an obvious size disparity between A and B. A being the much larger person.

    What did B do wrong? He was on the cell phone in condition white. Second is conflict avoidance. We don't know what B said on the cell phone to A's female companion to set her off. By virtue of the fact I CCW as often as possible I make it a point to avoid trouble and be aware. Even in States with a stand your ground law with civil suit immunity such as FL I'm not going to have a Dirty Harry mindset. I don't want to be good friends with a homicide detective, CSI personnel and a DA. I also don't want to deal with the post traumatic stress associated with being involved in a SD act the required use of lethal force.

    Several factors may influence your decision or make you more apt to use lethal force. If you're in a State with stand your ground or similar laws, you may be more apt and legally in the right for any SD act. Case and point, FL or MO. There's a high probability that if this incident were to have happened in FL or MO, A would have left in an ambulance, coroner's vehicle or been driven to a trauma unit by his female companion. OH is one of more liberal cesspool shall issue States which their laundry list of prohibited areas, I'd be less apt to use a firearm. Also if the pizza establishment serves alcohol for on premises consumption it is a prohibited area under OH law. In States like GA, NC and OH with a laundry list of prohibited areas, I avoid them. I will pass through them but that's about it.

    The other question what if A committed battery against the owner or manager of the establishment? Yes, typically the castle doctrine is extended to the premises of a business. But keep in mind you're in OH which is a cesspool of a State to begin with.

    Could the owner or authorized agent of the business get involved and intervened in B's behalf? Yes, it's their place. If someone is beating up a customer in my place of business, I would intervene as it is bad for business.

    Would they have been justified? IMO looking at the video, yes. A showed obvious disregard of the life of B. While B was probably rude to A's female companion or said an offensive comment in regards to her rude behavior of cutting in line to whomever he was talking with on the phone that is not an excuse to beat the life out of him. IMO, using a firearm to stop A would have been justified. I would return no bill if I was on the grand jury or not guilty if a firearm was used to stop A and he kept on going after throwing the first punch.

    It's a mindset or zen associated with self defense. It's like the late Pat Morita said as the Mr. Miyagi in one of the Karate Kid movies, "Best way to block punch is no be there." Same goes with being in involved in any type of situation, "Best way to avoid shooting or being shot is no be there."

    The street rule of thumb with SD acts is this; never start it. The force used must be appropriate for the actions warranting use of any type of force. IMO, B did not start it or warrant the beating by being on his cell phone.
    Know the law; don't ask, don't tell.
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    Happy new 1984; 25 years behind schedule. Send lawyers, guns and money...the SHTF...

  10. #9
    I can't even comment and be politically correct. But the x-con needs to be a con again, for life. Someone like that is prime "future murder of the year."
    Danger of living in the inner cities. Akron is having troubles like you would not believe and Cleveland is, too.
    Rule #1 of CCW: Don't get made.

  11. #10
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    And THAT, Ladies, Gentlemen and Liberals of all stripes, is why you carry a gun. All the guy wanted was a slice of pizza. Instead he was forced into a confrontation he didn't seek by a Neanderthal that he didn't know who had to get into his face.

    Because she's special, I guess.

    Well, after reviewing the tape...I'd'a shot his ass. 'Course, once you took it out, you probably would have had to.
    NRA Life; GOA Life; CCRKBA Life; Trustee, NJCSD; F&AM: 32 & KT
    The Only Answer to a Bad Guy with a Gun - Is a Good Guy with a Gun!
    When Seconds Count...The Police are only MINUTES Away!

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