CCW Holder shot by LVMPD - Justified????? - Page 17
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Thread: CCW Holder shot by LVMPD - Justified?????

  1. Quote Originally Posted by CCW Instructor View Post
    This shooting was a terrible tragedy for the deceased, his fiance, his family & friends, the officers who did the shooting and their families. Rather than pointing fingers at the officers for being 'trigger happy' we should see what the actual investigation reveals. I believe this was a classic tragedy of errors in judgments on both sides made within seconds.

    I've reviewed the safety protocols I teach in my CCW classes - and none of them call for lifting up your shirt or other concealment garment. The safest thing to do is to get your hands up, or interlock your fingers behind your head and comply precisely with the officers' commands - which means getting proned out of whatever they say. You do not try to be 'helpful' by showing them your firearm.

    Get down per their commands, let them handcuff you and get things under control. THEN they will find your sidearm in a routine body search and they will find your CCW card. You can explain things after they've secured the scene and you. THEN it's time to sort things out calmly and respectfully.

    These officers may have mis-interpreted what he was trying to do. He may also have been responding to conflicting commands given at the same time by more than one officer. Everybody's adrenaline was flowing at the moment and any movement other than precise compliance is what likely led to the shooting. Sad (and avoidable) tragedy for everyone involved.
    I think there are two types of Cops. One type is a Cowboy; they look forward to "events" and get all juiced up over it. They are the scary ones.

    The other type is the one that wants to go home at the end of the shift. They are the majority. They also have a cooler head on their shoulders, but it is IMPERATIVE, even with this type, that you follow COMMANDS EXPLICITLY! REMEMBER, they want to go home at the end of the shift, and their verbals commands and ACTIONS will ensure that is accomplished. ACT ACCORDINGLY!!!!!!!!!!

  2.   
  3. #162
    Quote Originally Posted by SC Tiger View Post
    I didn't think of this before, but could they be delaying the release of the video to avoid contaminating the potential jury pool? If they have a good reason not to release it (and they very well may) then that is perfectly fine but they need to be honest about why they aren't releasing it yet. They may also have to review everything to make sure they followed their policy and procedure manual to the letter. That said, equipment breaks down so it is possible there are technical difficulties in getting the video. The problem is that any time you use that as a reason, true or not, it looks suspicious (note to all retail store general managers and/or owners - MAINTAIN YOUR VIDEO EQUIPMENT!) I also wonder if the fact that they may have to get video from several different cameras and splice it together has anything to do with it.

    I stand by my statement that I don't know what happened.

    I can certainly understand the LVMPD's hesitancy to release the video to the media. Anyone remember the Rodney King thing? The beginning of the full video supposedly showed him being very violent with the police and pretty much justified most of their actions. The media edited the video so it looked like the cops just pulled him out of the car and beat the snot out of him for no reason. Were it me in charge of releasing the video I would seriously consider just putting the whole [email protected] thing on Youtube or something.
    In regards to the Rodney King thing...

    Yes we all know he was a habitual drunkard and drug-addict...

    It does not matter what he did before...
    What they did after made anything he did moot...

    In my view there is absolutely no excuse or reason to beat a guy with your night stick (with two hands I might add) while he is crawling away on his hands and knees...

    Further, years ago I read a Sports Illustrated Article on Legendary Pittsburgh Steeler & Hall Famer... Lynn Swann...

    What I have never forgot is his statement regarding his "routine traffic stop" by Los Angeles Police during the Watts Riots...
    The two police officers beat him on his knees in isolation with their night sticks and told him "You Used To Play Football Ni**er"...
    The officers were not charged or convicted of any wrong doing...
    Fortunately for Lynn, his family and football fans he was/is resilient...

    Seeing how this is just two of many such incidents in Los Angeles alone...

    As the saying goes...
    The Los Angeles Police needs to change their motto from "To Protect and To Serve"
    to...
    "We Treat You Like A King" ...

    I have a huge problem with "Sanctuary City & County" Clark County, Nevada Sheriff Doug Gillespie whom not only refuses to enforce our nations immigration laws, (Illegal Aliens Over-Running Home Depot & Star Nurseries In Las Vegas Alone, Just For Starters...) supports mandatory handgun registration in Clark County, Nevada ONLY (AKA: Blue Card) He continually comes off as its inconceivable that any officer ever draws or uses his weapon or acts in a unlawful manner...
    Further, that No LVMPD Officer has EVER been convicted of a unjustified shooting, including several incidents where the individual that was shot was UNARMED...

    Justice Needs To Be Served In This Case AND Clark County, Nevada Sheriff Doug Gillespie NEEDS TO BE FIRED...

    "The people never give up their liberties, but under some delusion." - Edmund Burke

  4. #163
    Another thing to ponder...

    IF (and I believe there IS) surveillance footage and it puts Clark County, Nevada Sheriff Doug Gillespie and company in a bad light; IT is in their best interest to not have it made public that way they can get it made inadmissible as evidence for a jury to see; and as we know Jury's are always directed to make their decisions based on the evidence presented in court...

    And IF they never see it its hard to form a sound opinion of the facts of the matter, when key info is omitted...

    So...

    IF surveillance footage is not made public before a trial or inquest, etc., then legal maneuvers can be leveraged to make such evidence inadmissible...
    Chain of custody unverifiable etc...

    Much in the same way Obama nor anybody challenging his eligibility has been permitted to enter prima facie evidence on the record in front of any court to date...
    Legal Maneuvering...
    No Evidence on the record, Nothing to challenge; Refuse to hear a case...
    Nothing to challenge...

    "The people never give up their liberties, but under some delusion." - Edmund Burke

  5. #164
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    The High Country
    Posts
    1,029
    Well, that was a particularly venemous and hateful rant, gypsy - feel better now?

    I don't know where you got the Lynn Swann story, but it sounds like a perversion of the San Fancisco stop where Swann and his party got nabbed going through a red light. A scuffle ensued, 11 officers in a total of five patrol cars were called to the scene, and the Swanns were all arrested and charged with assault. Eventually they were awarded damages, but so were the cops who countersued them.

    Probably should check your sources.

    And IF you already have your mind made up before seeing the facts, any old theory will do.

    Ever notice how playing the what "IF" game always ends up with the correct pre-conceived conclusion?

  6. #165
    Quote Originally Posted by Bohemian View Post
    In regards to the Rodney King thing...

    Yes we all know he was a habitual drunkard and drug-addict...

    It does not matter what he did before...
    What they did after made anything he did moot...

    In my view there is absolutely no excuse or reason to beat a guy with your night stick (with two hands I might add) while he is crawling away on his hands and knees...

    Further, years ago I read a Sports Illustrated Article on Legendary Pittsburgh Steeler & Hall Famer... Lynn Swann...

    What I have never forgot is his statement regarding his "routine traffic stop" by Los Angeles Police during the Watts Riots...
    The two police officers beat him on his knees in isolation with their night sticks and told him "You Used To Play Football Ni**er"...
    The officers were not charged or convicted of any wrong doing...
    Fortunately for Lynn, his family and football fans he was/is resilient...

    Seeing how this is just two of many such incidents in Los Angeles alone...

    As the saying goes...
    The Los Angeles Police needs to change their motto from "To Protect and To Serve"
    to...
    "We Treat You Like A King" ...

    I have a huge problem with "Sanctuary City & County" Clark County, Nevada Sheriff Doug Gillespie whom not only refuses to enforce our nations immigration laws, (Illegal Aliens Over-Running Home Depot & Star Nurseries In Las Vegas Alone, Just For Starters...) supports mandatory handgun registration in Clark County, Nevada ONLY (AKA: Blue Card) He continually comes off as its inconceivable that any officer ever draws or uses his weapon or acts in a unlawful manner...
    Further, that No LVMPD Officer has EVER been convicted of a unjustified shooting, including several incidents where the individual that was shot was UNARMED...

    Justice Needs To Be Served In This Case AND Clark County, Nevada Sheriff Doug Gillespie NEEDS TO BE FIRED...

    Perhaps I should re-phrase my opinion on the Rodney King thing - I was simply saying that the video the media released was edited to make it appear that a completely innocent man was yanked from his car and beaten senseless by the LAPD. In truth he was resisting arrest and they had to subdue him. They may have gone overboard - I honestly don't know. But in the end the case was made into much more than it should have been.

    Does LA have so many riots that they have names for each of them now?

  7. #166
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Bellingham, WA, USA
    Posts
    733

    Thumbs up Well said, Bohemian.

    And ignore the silly comments from Cocked_been_Blocked. He interprets anything that doesn't agree with HIS pre-conceived conclusions to be venomous and hateful ranting. Besides, according to his own admission, he is a troll. Probably all of 14 years old, to boot.

    Whether one agrees with you or not (I do), your calm and measured posts are the farthest thing from ranting.
    "The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." Thomas Jefferson

  8. #167
    CCW Instructor,

    I agree with everything you say, except maybe one thing. Do not put your hands out of sight behind your head. I would suggest you tell to keep the hands away from the body and raised high. No one can say "they were reaching for something", or "pointing something at someone". I know it may be picky, but no one can say you were being aggressive. When that LEO is close behind you and tells you to do otherwise, be safe and do not confuse the issue at hand.

    BB

  9. #168

    I am reaching for my W-A-L-L-E-T...



    What was it Richard Pryor said?

    "I am reaching for my W-A-L-L-E-T...
    I do not want to be no mother fu*king accident"...
    Pryor

    "The people never give up their liberties, but under some delusion." - Edmund Burke

  10. What a circus!

    Either the cops have it right or they do not. There seems to be a question about conflicting orders from different cops. Some saying get on the ground while others were saying drop the weapon. I think the bottom line here for us is what can we get out of this incident. As concealed carriers we need to constantly maintain our wits even when others are losing theirs, or Mr. Murphy puts in an appearance. I, for one, have decided that if my gun is still in its holster I will feel safer just putting my hands in the air and letting the cops remove it themselves. I will not obey an order to throw down a weapon that is not already in my hands. I want to comply in the safest manner for everyone and I don't need anyone getting any more nervous than they already are. So, one way or the other, I think there are probably errors on both sides; hopefully, time will make it all clear.

    By the way, I support law enforcement but ultimately we are all human and prone to human frailties.

  11. #170
    Quote Originally Posted by Hoganbeg View Post
    What a circus!

    Either the cops have it right or they do not. There seems to be a question about conflicting orders from different cops. Some saying get on the ground while others were saying drop the weapon. I think the bottom line here for us is what can we get out of this incident. As concealed carriers we need to constantly maintain our wits even when others are losing theirs, or Mr. Murphy puts in an appearance. I, for one, have decided that if my gun is still in its holster I will feel safer just putting my hands in the air and letting the cops remove it themselves. I will not obey an order to throw down a weapon that is not already in my hands. I want to comply in the safest manner for everyone and I don't need anyone getting any more nervous than they already are. So, one way or the other, I think there are probably errors on both sides; hopefully, time will make it all clear.

    By the way, I support law enforcement but ultimately we are all human and prone to human frailties.
    Welcome to the site from PRMA!

    I couldn't agree more, everyone, LEO or civilian, are still human at the end of the day.

    -Capo-
    "Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum"

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