CCW Holder shot by LVMPD - Justified????? - Page 8
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Thread: CCW Holder shot by LVMPD - Justified?????

  1. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by danfordman View Post
    Father of Costco shooting victim speaks to the Review-Journal. July 22,2010
    I take it the father was not a witness, was nowhere near Costco when the incident took place?

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  3. #72
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    Here is a post on firearmsandtraining.blogspot.com from a witness:

    I couldn't agree with you more....My wife and I were 7 or 8 feet away from the shooting as were the police. We were to the suspects immediate right. We heard and saw the 3 police officers shouting to the man in question to 'get on your knees' several times. At that point the man appeared somewhat stunned by the commotion and shouting of the police. His Right arm went up in a defenseless position and it appeared his left arm appeared to be going up but there was NO gun in his hand. He was taserd and shot at the same time. At no time did the man in question ever raise his voice, shout an obscenity or become confrontational with the police. We saw the disabled man stooping to his right facing us with what appeared to be a bullet wound in his upper chest with blood coming from the wound and immediately his eyes became glossy as he began to convulse. At this point he was no threat to anyone, both hands were in full view of us and there was no gun. As he was down, the police continued to shout 'put the gun down' several times...but there was no gun in his hand as we had full vantage point view. The injured man was having agonal respirations, he was down when the second volly of bullets rang out. There was no doubt in question that following the second barrage of bullets the man was dead. His girlfriend was to the back side of us and began to scream.....why did you kill him, he is a military man with a license to carry a concealed weapon. You didn't need to kill him....you didn't need to kill him.
    An officer then came up to the injured man who in my opinion was a 'dead' man', was cuffed with his hands behind his back and no attempt by the officer to determine if the man was alive or dead. No apparent life saving aid was given to the 'downed' man. The man was totally lifeless when the Paramedics arrived on scene. I was absolutely surprised to see that no attempt at aggressive ACLS was engaged. They simply just picked up the body like a 'sack of potatoes' and hurled him onto the gurney and into the ambulance This was a crime scene.... the crime scene was violated. One of the paramedics who attended to an injured elderly lady said the man was dead. There was a dead man in front of Costco. What nobody is talking about is that there were many many spectators, many like ourselves within just a few feet of the victim when the shots rang out. It seems to me that the greater danger was posed not by the victim but by the police who fired many shots in the vicinity of the innocent public. I agree with you, I hope the media and your friends family can get their hands of Costco's Camera's which will indeed tell the rest of the story. Also it must be confirmed whether the second gun supposedly found by the victims side was indeed also registered to him as a licensed conceal and carry.
    This whole incident was a monumental tragedy; a tragedy for the family and friend and also a tragedy for the involved officers who were pushed into a needless confrontation that reached hysterical proportions due to the overreaction of certain employees and bystanders. This was a needless death.

    In summary it is our opinion that the victim did not pose an immediate threat to the public.....and in the final analysis was a case of excessive force


    Link to the website: Firearms and Training: 3 Officers Involved in Shooting at Summerlin Costco in Las Vegas
    Suppose you were an idiot, and suppose you were a member of Congress;
    but I repeat myself.
    Mark Twain

  4. Quote Originally Posted by BigSlick View Post
    Here is a post on firearmsandtraining.blogspot.com from a witness:

    I couldn't agree with you more....My wife and I were 7 or 8 feet away from the shooting as were the police. We were to the suspects immediate right. We heard and saw the 3 police officers shouting to the man in question to 'get on your knees' several times. At that point the man appeared somewhat stunned by the commotion and shouting of the police. His Right arm went up in a defenseless position and it appeared his left arm appeared to be going up but there was NO gun in his hand. He was taserd and shot at the same time. At no time did the man in question ever raise his voice, shout an obscenity or become confrontational with the police. We saw the disabled man stooping to his right facing us with what appeared to be a bullet wound in his upper chest with blood coming from the wound and immediately his eyes became glossy as he began to convulse. At this point he was no threat to anyone, both hands were in full view of us and there was no gun. As he was down, the police continued to shout 'put the gun down' several times...but there was no gun in his hand as we had full vantage point view. The injured man was having agonal respirations, he was down when the second volly of bullets rang out. There was no doubt in question that following the second barrage of bullets the man was dead. His girlfriend was to the back side of us and began to scream.....why did you kill him, he is a military man with a license to carry a concealed weapon. You didn't need to kill him....you didn't need to kill him.
    An officer then came up to the injured man who in my opinion was a 'dead' man', was cuffed with his hands behind his back and no attempt by the officer to determine if the man was alive or dead. No apparent life saving aid was given to the 'downed' man. The man was totally lifeless when the Paramedics arrived on scene. I was absolutely surprised to see that no attempt at aggressive ACLS was engaged. They simply just picked up the body like a 'sack of potatoes' and hurled him onto the gurney and into the ambulance This was a crime scene.... the crime scene was violated. One of the paramedics who attended to an injured elderly lady said the man was dead. There was a dead man in front of Costco. What nobody is talking about is that there were many many spectators, many like ourselves within just a few feet of the victim when the shots rang out. It seems to me that the greater danger was posed not by the victim but by the police who fired many shots in the vicinity of the innocent public. I agree with you, I hope the media and your friends family can get their hands of Costco's Camera's which will indeed tell the rest of the story. Also it must be confirmed whether the second gun supposedly found by the victims side was indeed also registered to him as a licensed conceal and carry.
    This whole incident was a monumental tragedy; a tragedy for the family and friend and also a tragedy for the involved officers who were pushed into a needless confrontation that reached hysterical proportions due to the overreaction of certain employees and bystanders. This was a needless death.

    In summary it is our opinion that the victim did not pose an immediate threat to the public.....and in the final analysis was a case of excessive force


    Link to the website: Firearms and Training: 3 Officers Involved in Shooting at Summerlin Costco in Las Vegas
    I still cannot take sides at this point. Video evidence is fact. Witness testimony is speculative. IMO

  5. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by danfordman View Post
    Witness testimony is speculative. IMO
    Especially when it is so wildly embellished and different from the witness accounts given in the original news reports.

    Still find it interesting how some seem so predisposed to have their opinions manipulated by the "targeted" news sites.

  6. Friends and family of Erik Scott, the man shot to death at a Costco store by Las Vegas police, are taking their message to roadside billboards, here the link;
    Billboards Feature Man Killed by Las Vegas Police - KLAS-TV Channel 8 News Las Vegas

    Jury to hear case Sept. 3 in officer-involved fatality , here's the link;

    http://www.lvrj.com/news/inquest-set...-99000009.html
    Last edited by danfordman; 07-23-2010 at 06:47 PM. Reason: add a link

  7. #76

    Continued......

    The more I see the spin on this incident the more convinced I am that "trigger happy" cops are going to get away with murder. I don't adhere to the common belief that police officers are special. I see a person who is given a gun and a badge and more likely than not have abused people in the name of the law. CCWs have to get training and walk a fine line to get a CCW permit, almost always knowing the laws better than LEOs themselves.

    The fact that anyone can make an arrest seems to have slipped the minds of people who would rather that they were the only ones in charge, and is rarely known by the common man. The fact that police should probably be the ones who aren't armed never occurs to government types. At the very least the types of arms the police possess should be available to every household. With all of the effective non-lethal means at their disposal the police have no need to be armed with MP5s and M16s. How many of you have a "bullet proof" vest that you wear while carrying?

    Being former enlisted I know what officers can be like, especially the ones from the top three. That doesn't mean that they have a chip on their shoulder any more than some of my fellow NCOs did. So let's get past the "Officer And A Gentleman" stereotypes and see this man in the true light of this episode. I can't get past the "destructive behavior" statements attributed to the Costco employees. This man sold pace makers, not crack cocaine. I doubt that he was barking orders at the employees. I think he made the very human mistake of letting someone see that he was carrying and it got him killed. That should sound alarms with all of us.

    We take the time to be responsible for ourselves and others who may need our help in a crisis and we can't expect the response an LEO will get from a radio call of "shots fired". So how many of you would think twice before coming to the rescue of someone else because of police and law suits? Has this incident made you think about what you are doing when you carry now any more than before? You know as well as I do Erik Scott knew the law. He was carrying legally.

    I find the witnesses who have posted online to be somewhat suspect, but I find the police evidence that 12 people have come forward to say that Erik Scott was pointing a gun at the officers even more suspect. Was their testimony a product of the police shooting a "suspect" and they saw what they were supposed to see in that situation, or was it what they really saw, if they really saw anything? There are too many questions about this particular case and these cases should be dealt with in open court just like every other case involving a death by gunfire. If there was a question about a shooting a CCW was involved in you know you're headed to court, probably after a stay in jail.

    We would all like to think that these LEOs were justified in their actions, because the alternative is worse. They need to produce the full evidence for the public soon.

  8. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by 44WCF View Post
    The more I see the spin on this incident the more convinced ...
    The more I see this type posting on here the more confirmation I have supporting research suggesting that misinformed people rarely change their minds when presented with the facts -- and often become even more attached to their beliefs. Regardless of the outcome, a certain element of members here will always maintain the cops were in the wrong because that's just what they believe.

    Sad this behavior gets reinforced from having their opinions manipulated by the extremist proaganda littering this place.

  9. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cocked _and_Locked View Post
    The more I see this type posting on here the more confirmation I have supporting research suggesting that misinformed people rarely change their minds when presented with the facts --
    And which facts about this incident would you be referring to? No video or 911 calls have been released to support what the police say happened. Seems clear to me that the LVPD respond to the call as if a mad man was shooting up the store with an AK-47. It's still not clear if he had his gun in his hand when he was shot. And the practice of cherry picking witness that only support one side is not new, the courts do that all the time.
    Suppose you were an idiot, and suppose you were a member of Congress;
    but I repeat myself.
    Mark Twain

  10. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigSlick View Post
    And which facts about this incident would you be referring to?
    The fact that there are few, if any "facts" yet some profess to be "convinced" about something, yada yada.

    Pretty stupid, really.

  11. Quote Originally Posted by Cocked _and_Locked View Post
    The fact that there are few, if any "facts" yet some profess to be "convinced" about something, yada yada.

    Pretty stupid, really.
    X 2 Facts are Facts everything else is speculation.

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