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Thread: Reloading Powders

  1. Quote Originally Posted by Boomer View Post
    Are you using a good taper crimp? 231 is a ball powder so it isnt as touchy when it comes to crimp. Unique is a flake powder & does need a good crimp to burn completely & achieve good accuracy.

    Sounds like its time to do some load development. It is a process that I truly enjoy most of the time & hate with a vengance some of the time.

    Here is "my" process to come up with a good handload. It doesnt matter rifle or pistol it all works the same.

    Start with your "ideal" solution meaning case, primer, powder & bullet that you really want to use. Why start there? Well if you stumble on the solution then there is little need to keep going
    Next have an attainable goal (your glock 19 isnt going to shoot 1in groups at 25yds no matter what you do).

    Now lets make some bullets. Make 3 batch's of 5 rounds. 1st batch will be the minimum listed load. Next batch smack dab in the middle last one max published (there is little need to worry about pressure if you are using a current reloading manuals max load as they have been throughly gone over by lawyers).

    Start a notebook & write all relevant load info on each loading in the book. I take it a step farther & color code. I use a permanent marker & color each primer & use the same color in my book that way I never get them mixed up.

    Next shoot them off a solid rest at separate targets. Measure the groups & tabulate data.

    If every group it terrible then this load will not yeild fruit. Time to change something be it powder primer or bullet.
    If one of the groups is really good then you just need to zero in on it. With subsequent testing go up or down 2 tenths of a grain & go back to the range.

    With some perseverance you should be able to come up with a great handload.

    In some cases you can not come up with a load that shoots well... Time to sell the gun! Even if its a type style whatever that you REALLY like. If it doesnt shoot well you wont shoot it & then whats the point?

    Let me know if you have any questions or need additional help.
    well... I had sortof a tight (flush) crimp on the round. I began to become suspicious so I recessed the crimping die to ease it up a bit and It has improved the grouping to within about 2 or 3 inches. Im using two guns a smith and wesson m&p 9 and a beretta 92fs.

    are you saying that certain types of powder will dictate the amount of crimp to use? sheesh! this is getting in depth.
    Retired US Army Medic
    Proud Husband, Dad and Christian
    www.nationofshooters.com

  2.   
  3. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by kn1080 View Post
    well... I had sortof a tight (flush) crimp on the round. I began to become suspicious so I recessed the crimping die to ease it up a bit and It has improved the grouping to within about 2 or 3 inches. Im using two guns a smith and wesson m&p 9 and a beretta 92fs.

    are you saying that certain types of powder will dictate the amount of crimp to use? sheesh! this is getting in depth.
    Yes & no. A good crimp is more impoirtant with flake & exgtruded powders.

    H is for Hogdon in powders. I use H335 allot as well

    if you are getting 2-3in groups at 25yds with those pistols you are doing well! They are both "duty grade" pistols & as such will never be tack drivers.
    Never argue with an idiot. First they drag you down to their level then they beat you with experience!

  4. #13
    wolfhunter Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by kn1080 View Post
    That "H" powder, is that a Winchester product?
    Hogdon

  5. Quote Originally Posted by kn1080 View Post
    Could we please have a powder discussion...

    What do we all use for reloading. I have been using 231 up until today. Today I bought a bottle of WST to see how that works.
    kn what cal. are you reloading? I like 231 for 40 cal and 45 acp I even use it for my 380. 5.8 grn. with a 165 Berry for the 40 cal.and can keep about a 4 inch group at 25 yards. Clean burning and good control. I have read that wst also good and economical I will be trying it soon. Always go by the manuals and start at minimum.
    Also, a good pair of calipers and micrometer will be very helpfull.
    "When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it."Frederic Bastia

  6. #15
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Battle Creek Mi
    Posts
    1,853
    For pistol I have grown very fond of Unique over the years, riffle is a totally different discussion.....
    "The sword dose not cause the murder, and the maker of the sword dose not bear sin" Rabbi Solomon ben Isaac 11th century
    "Don't be so open minded that your brains fall out!" Father John Corapi.

  7. I've used Bullseye, HP-38, Winchester 231, Unique and HS-6 along with 777, Pryodex P, Pyrodex RS and Goex FFg and FFFg at one time or another. Dig out your reloading manuals and figure out what you are looking for in velocity and bullet weight. That will help you narrow down what you want to buy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boomer View Post
    Here is "my" process to come up with a good handload. It doesnt matter rifle or pistol it all works the same.

    Start with your "ideal" solution meaning case, primer, powder & bullet that you really want to use. Why start there? Well if you stumble on the solution then there is little need to keep going
    Next have an attainable goal (your glock 19 isnt going to shoot 1in groups at 25yds no matter what you do).

    Now lets make some bullets. Make 3 batch's of 5 rounds. 1st batch will be the minimum listed load. Next batch smack dab in the middle last one max published (there is little need to worry about pressure if you are using a current reloading manuals max load as they have been throughly gone over by lawyers).

    Start a notebook & write all relevant load info on each loading in the book. I take it a step farther & color code. I use a permanent marker & color each primer & use the same color in my book that way I never get them mixed up.

    Next shoot them off a solid rest at separate targets. Measure the groups & tabulate data.

    If every group it terrible then this load will not yeild fruit. Time to change something be it powder primer or bullet.
    If one of the groups is really good then you just need to zero in on it. With subsequent testing go up or down 2 tenths of a grain & go back to the range.

    With some perseverance you should be able to come up with a great handload.

    In some cases you can not come up with a load that shoots well... Time to sell the gun! Even if its a type style whatever that you REALLY like. If it doesnt shoot well you wont shoot it & then whats the point?

    Let me know if you have any questions or need additional help.
    I gotta agree with you about WRITING THINGS DOWN. If it ain't wrote down, it don't exist. You can't repeat it if you don't know what you did. (Don't ask me how I know this.)

    If you think that's a bit anal retentive, wait 'til you read this.

    When I am developing a new load, I take the published data and load 10 rounds at each 1/10th (.1) grain increments starting at the minimum and going straight to the maximum UNLESS I am looking for a specific velocity range and the max is listed as well (as in a couple hundred fps or more) over it. EVERYTHING except for the powder charge is as close to the same as I can get. I get as bad as benchrest shooters when it comes to case prep because the only variable I want is the powder charge. I've trimmed small lots of 100 rounds or more of pistol brass to the minimum case length more than once for a serious session of load development. The brass gets sorted by manufacturer, lot (if I have more than one lot of the same brand on hand) and number of times fired. I prefer once fired or virgin brass for load development and only use one brand and one lot of brass in that brand for any given test.

    The 1st 5 rounds of the 10 that I load at each 1/10th grain (.1) increment are purely for function fire and for me to get a feel for the recoil. In semi autos, I want to see if it will work the action properly, it will lock the slide back on an empty slide and -if it's on the hot side- if there's any sign of the firing pin still being out when the brass is ejected. In wheel guns, I am mainly looking at the recoil. I rarely even put up a target for this part of the test, I just put the 5 rounds into the berm slowly.

    The second 5 rounds are purely for accuracy. If I'm developing a load for a semi auto, I load the 5 test rounds and top it off with a factory or known reload. That round goes into the berm and the other 5 go on target for group. Usually, I shoot this part from a bench with my forearms/wrists resting on a sandbag for better accuracy. If I happen to have a carbine chambered in the caliber in question, I use it instead of a pistol for the same reason (besides, I tested function with the other 5 rounds). After all, I'm testing the ammunition, not my shooting skills. Normally, this is when I use the chronograph as well.

    If I find a couple of powder charges that are close in function and accuracy, I may just go with the lower one (1/10th a grain adds up when you are talking about small charge weights like you have when you use Bullseye) or I may do a 20 or 25 round test to see if there's one load that has a lower standard deviation in velocity.

  8. Quote Originally Posted by wooddoctor View Post
    kn what cal. are you reloading? I like 231 for 40 cal and 45 acp I even use it for my 380. 5.8 grn. with a 165 Berry for the 40 cal.and can keep about a 4 inch group at 25 yards. Clean burning and good control. I have read that wst also good and economical I will be trying it soon. Always go by the manuals and start at minimum.
    Also, a good pair of calipers and micrometer will be very helpfull.
    Hey Wood... I've been doing 9mm predominantly. 125 grain lead RN. Im using CCI primers and 4.9-5.1 grains of Win 231 powder.

    I bought a set of calipers from lyman... great investment.
    Retired US Army Medic
    Proud Husband, Dad and Christian
    www.nationofshooters.com

  9. #18
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    TN, the patron state of shootin stuff
    Posts
    1,399
    231 and HP-38 for all my .40 and 9mm loads. I get good results with .380's I reloaded for my dad. Like someone said earlier, it burns clean. I only use FMJ or plated bullets with Federal or CCI primers. My dealer told me that the 231 and HP-38 is the same powder. I have both powders and the load data is the same.
    Suppose you were an idiot, and suppose you were a member of Congress;
    but I repeat myself.
    Mark Twain

  10. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by kn1080 View Post
    well... I had sortof a tight (flush) crimp on the round. I began to become suspicious so I recessed the crimping die to ease it up a bit and It has improved the grouping to within about 2 or 3 inches. Im using two guns a smith and wesson m&p 9 and a beretta 92fs.

    are you saying that certain types of powder will dictate the amount of crimp to use? sheesh! this is getting in depth.
    I do my crimping by measuring the crimp with calipers.

    -Doc

  11. Quote Originally Posted by Bighouse Doc View Post
    I do my crimping by measuring the crimp with calipers.

    -Doc
    Thanks Doc. For some reason, it never occured to me to measure the crimp for some reason. Ive just been visually comparing the rounds with factory rounds. I will start measuring now.
    Retired US Army Medic
    Proud Husband, Dad and Christian
    www.nationofshooters.com

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