How NOT to shoot the good guys!
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Thread: How NOT to shoot the good guys!

  1. #1
    Join Date
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    Exclamation How NOT to shoot the good guys!

    Here is a subject that I have not seen broached before, and hopefully we will never experience. Many of us practice regularly at the range for a SHTF scenario how many of us think about this, will the BG / terrorist / shooter always be blindly apparent, or could it be that they are just one of the crowd.


    Whether you OC, CC, or are just out and about this is in need of open discussion. the bellow is borrowed from The Warrior Talk News, September edition


    1). Look at the “subject’s” appearance. At the Trolley Square Mall shooting..... The police were on scene BEFORE the fight was over, and had to evaluate the off-duty cop before linking up with him; His physical movements, weapons handling, use of cover and clean cut hair cut sent a strong message to the first uniform on scene that this might not be the bad guy. Does the subject of your attention look like he is trained? Does he dress and look like a “good guy”. Certainly not all good guys look the part, and that is why we have additional points of reference.

    2). Look at what is he armed with? Is it a modern high quality weapon, or is it some cheap firearm. The police would not use a Tech 9, nor an SKS, nor even a shiny revolver today. Black modern pistols and black modern rifles are quite common however. There is even an agency issuing Arsenal AKs in 5.56!

    3). Look at his actions. Obviously, if they point guns at you, or begin to, all bets are off and you stop them from doing that. But that will not always be the case. In video of the Mumbai murders, the terrorists were very relaxed. They were not worried about being shot and were doing all the shooting themselves. Contrast that with the movements of the victims and Indian police responders, who were running and making use of cover. In other mass shooting events, the bad guys were described as moving casually with their weapons.

    One member at my forum relates how the Israelis found it relatively easy to determine bad guy from good guy with only a few seconds of observation based on actions.

    He writes: "In the words of one army responder: ‘There were armed people shooting at women and children, and there were armed people who were not. I shot those in the first group. No civilian responder was the victim of friendly fire, despite the fact that none of us knew each other and none of us was in uniform.’ "

    If you choose to get involved in an incident as CCW Operator, or Off Duty Officer, or if you are sent as a Uniformed Officer to a call involving gunfire, consider these three elements before making your deadly force decision. If you have time to analyze what is going on, you also have time to evaluate what you see before you. Everyone wants to shoot the bad guy, but nobody wants to shoot a good guy.
    It may not and very likely will not be a black and white situation where PERP ID is blindingly obvious, so it's time for discussion and thoughts!!!
    "The sword dose not cause the murder, and the maker of the sword dose not bear sin" Rabbi Solomon ben Isaac 11th century
    "Don't be so open minded that your brains fall out!" Father John Corapi.

  2.   
  3. #2
    That's the LAST thing I'd worry about is being shot by a cop. In cases like Virginia Tech, Columbine, and others, I have seen video where you can hear screams and gunfire inside the building while the cops are hiding behind their cars outside. If MY kids were inside I'd be running through the front door like the first responders at the WTC on 9 11.

    I don't think any amount of discussion can prepare you for such a tragedy as each case would be different, and a lot of stuff in your mind goes out the window under such stress. But it's not rocket science. You see somebody shooting at kids, you take em out and keep your butt under cover from anyone who MIGHT seem to be a threat until you know.
    You can run... but you'll just die tired. 3%

  4. #3
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    I think you may be missing the point of my post, while not getting shot by the police is a very good idea, my post is about not shooting someone other than the PERP.....
    "The sword dose not cause the murder, and the maker of the sword dose not bear sin" Rabbi Solomon ben Isaac 11th century
    "Don't be so open minded that your brains fall out!" Father John Corapi.

  5. #4
    find cover first, evaluate the situation, engage if necessary.

    I would rather take little extra time to ensure that the targets I engage are the BG's. I dont want to get involved in a situation where I see a woman and a taxi driver fighting, and automatically go to the rescue of the woman. Later to find out that the taxi driver was defending himself from her robbing him (just a quick example of how sometimes things are not always as they could first appear).

  6. #5
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    Sheldon you hit the nail on the head with this one. I have often thought about this, what happens when you respond to gunfire and find civilians pointing guns at each other? Or how about are moving away from gunfire and run into someone else holding a sidearm? Are they involved, or just another schmuck trying to get to safety? What do you do if you have a known BG in your sights and someone else comes up and holds you in their sights? Not a fun line of thinking, but with all the CC'ers out there, mistakes are VERY possible. I only hope my OODA loop operates fast enough to make a good judgement if/when it happens.
    My way is not better, it is just mine, your way is not better, it is just yours.
    Carry what your comfortable with, there is no "Supergun" Carry how your comfortable, open or concealed, so you have it with you when you need it

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