What if you saw a Law Enforcement Officer in Trouble? - Page 10
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Thread: What if you saw a Law Enforcement Officer in Trouble?

  1. #91
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Pacific Northwest
    Quote Originally Posted by IWLAFART View Post
    So you called 911 and reported an officer in trouble being beaten down. 911 tells you not to interfere officers on the way. Do you comply with 911 if it is going badly?????
    Yes, and get back in my car and drive away without looking like a fleeing perp (i.e. easy on the throttle, look both ways, etc) I definitely don't want to be there in posession of a gun when every adrenaline filled cop within 50 miles has fried the engine running code on the way to the scene. If they need a witness, they can trace the phone used for the 911 call and talk to me later.
    This thread started with the question, "Would you help a police officer in trouble?" I asked the instructor officer this very question at the Citizens' Academy I attended. His answer was to ask first if he needed help, lest you be mistaken for reinforcements for the BG. Just jumping in could get you shot if the cop doesn't know you.
    Post #31: "I think the answers to this question will be a good source for anyone wanting to judge the character of members of this forum. Who would you want on your team during times of trouble? I predict some of the cowards will delete their answer to this question, and rightly they should."

    I'm not a coward and here is my undeleted answer with edits as I read through 10 pgs of posts. As far as character goes, it could also be an indicator of good judgement. Saying you would unreservedly jump into a possibly lethal situation may mean I wouldn't want such an impulsive person on my team. (No offence intended or implied to any other member.)
    Post #36: "I guess I am fortunate in having lived so long that I can remember a time when there was compassion in this country for one another and when people were not reluctant or afraid to do their civic duty."

    Yes, you remember a time before virtue was its own punishment.
    Post #57 by Kasper - Yup, that's what I'm talking about. Evan Marshall's site stoppingpower.net has an excellent article called "The Dangers of Intervention." Multiply that exponentially and you get an idea of what is involved when it's LEO involved,
    Post #64 by Fudo: "Kasper - If you are on the losing end of a viscous assault, for your sake, I hope the cops who roll up don't stop to watch and wonder if they will be sued by the person who is attempting to kill you before they decide to come to your aid."

    Yup, that's exactly what happened here not too long ago. The hired help of the transit district stood and watched while a young woman was viciously assaulted by a gang. What chance does a Mundane stand for getting involved?
    IWLAFART Post #80" "This has been a concern of mine for years. Not only when involving a LEO but in any situation where you may have to unholster your gun. It is very likely that you may be thought to be a BG even by another person carrying concealed. Friendly fire you know what I mean?:

    This is a valid concern. So much so that FAS has a scenario involving this situation.
    PaxMentis Post #84: "What if the officer was wearing a BATF jacket...?"

    Nothing to see here Mundanes. Move along..."

    All that said, if I happened along the situation I saw on on some reality show in which the cop stopped a carload of Mojados (illegal immigrants from our friendly neighbor to the South) on a lonely road in the middle of nowhere (and TX has a lot of that) in which they mobbed him and killed him with his own gun - my arrival would change the odds from 5 to 1 to 5 to 2. And in TX you can carry a loaded rifle in your vehicle, so the odds have just shifted significantly.
    Better to perish in the struggle for freedom than live to see defeat. There ARE things to be feared more than death. The fyrd is a Constitutional imperative.

  3. #92
    I will always assist the officer if they are in need. I believe that its what we SHOULD DO. Regardless of what our personal opinions of said department are.

    These are the men and women that keep us safe at night.....

  4. #93
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Tacoma, Washington
    Quote Originally Posted by S&W645 View Post
    He may have a vest on but a shot in the arm pit can kill.
    Yes I know a lot of officers died by shooting themselves in the armpit and hitting their axillary artery when wearing shoulder holsters when they first came out. Also if they shot you in the upper thigh you can bleed to death if they hit the femoral artery. So if you feel confident in your shooting ability and are good at predicting the actions the BG is going to take go for it. I on the other hand will aim for center mass it is the biggest target and even if the BG turns his body you will still hit him in his side.

  5. #94
    I would aid the police officer where possible. Call 911, Pound on the guy if he is unarmed, or double tap to the chest if he is armed. Around here I believe most officers are definately worth helping. As long as he knows during the incident that I am there to help HIM and not the BG.

  6. #95
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    I would assist if at all possible. It would certianly be a high energy, confusing & dangerous thing to become involved in. You would want to try to make it clear to everyone there your intentions as loud as you could. However, if I had my wife and kids with me, my first responsibility would be to get them out of harms way. So sure I would help.

  7. #96
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Carroll County, MD
    Quote Originally Posted by IWLAFART View Post
    So you called 911 and reported an officer in trouble being beaten down. 911 tells you not to interfere officers on the way.<snip>
    That is, basically, a standard statement to avoid liability on the part of the 911 operator and jurisdiction. Just like if you report a fire, you will be told not to go into the structure to attempt a rescue.

    You still have to make your own decision.
    Politics compromises principles.
    Doing what's right, means doing what may not be popular.

  8. #97
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    SE FL and SE OH
    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix_1295 View Post
    That is, basically, a standard statement to avoid liability on the part of the 911 operator and jurisdiction. Just like if you report a fire, you will be told not to go into the structure to attempt a rescue.

    You still have to make your own decision.
    I agree. But where I worked, not going into a structure could cause the life of a fellow co-worker to be lost. That was why we were given firefighting and first aid/CPR/respirator training. Also OSHA First Responder on the Operational Level for chemical spills training. We were a half hour drive from a paved road at some structures. These structures also were manned when there were Huricanes on top of us too so Fire Rescue was not coming.

  9. Post

    Drawing from the limited information provided by the video (of the uniformed officer and his adversary on the bridge), imo, the civilian was obliged to comply with the officer's imperative orders whether they were justified or not.

    The military I served four honorable years in, between '58 & '62, trained all military personnel to comply with orders issued by bonafide civilian police officers, even when the individual officer giving orders may have been in the wrong - we were instructed not to be contentious with LEOs in the field, since 'out there', especially with no other witnesses, a corrupt LEO still has the power of life and death over you... In circumstances of the abuse of power by a police officer, the wronged civilian has a much better chance of presenting his case and acquiring justice, after the fact, in a court of law...

    That being said, although there is often a bitter truth in the saying that 'no good deed goes unpunished', the incident as it is recorded in the video entails a real possibility of the police officer being disarmed and the weapon being used for FILL IN HERE. That is, there's a real danger of a 'loose cannon' being introduced into the presented equation.

    Although it is only speculation, the actions of the initially observed police officer, and the prompt arrival of 'back up' in this case, strongly implies that the police officer's adversary fit the description of a 'suspect'. From the provided information, we cannot know the exact circumstances. On the other hand, the behavior of the adversary does indeed strongly indicate that he knew himself to be a 'suspect' and reasoned that he would be apprehended for a particular reason.

    In consideration of the above reasoning, I believe the benefit of a favorable doubt should go to the officer in need of assistance. Yes. Call 911 and report the unfolding circumstance and location, and, yes, render aid if you are able, especially when and if the distressed officer responds affirmatively to any question of whether he needs help.

    With regard for being mistaken for a BG, by post incidentally arriving police officers, that possibility is minimized with the 911 call, though such a hazard is indeed one of the dangers of legally armed citizens 'doing the right thing'.

    At this point I reiterate a previous poster's alert to Marshall Evan's article 'The Dangers of Intervention'.

    Post Script:
    IMHO, the restraint (of not firing to stop the attacking adversary) excersized by the LEO in the featured video, may have cost him his life and possibly the lives of others, had the attacker gained possession/control of the officer's weapon. Masad Ayoob's published writings repeatedly review that danger (the responsibility of anyone - including LEO's) of carrying a firearm, and the (worst case scenario) possibility of the weapon being taken from them.
    Last edited by Kai; 01-31-2011 at 05:23 PM. Reason: Addition of the caveat presented in the Post Script.

  10. #99
    If I was alone, absolutely ... if my wife was with me, my first thought would be for her safety; call 9-1-1 and once she's secure, I'd do whatever I could ... I'm always armed when out, either on my person or in the glovebox and wouldn't hesitate to use my gun to help/save an officer in distress ...
    "Neatness counts, but bullets often count more." Elvis Cole, World's Greatest Detective

  11. I will help with out hesistation!

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