What if you saw a Law Enforcement Officer in Trouble? - Page 12
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Thread: What if you saw a Law Enforcement Officer in Trouble?

  1. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by weekendskp View Post
    Axe, hey, would you post a link? I can't find anything on Google that relates.

    Wow, cant believe I didnt catch that.. You are right, that doesnt bring up anything relevant.... so, I will post a link to a very good example of what I wanted you to find when googling


    The War on Guns

  2.   
  3. Not true. If you ever worked with the other side ( your so-called terrorists ) you would know why the GGs wear those things even in a residential neighborhood. I've had dealings with the Intergovernmental Bureau in Miami-Dade and you won't see all of them identified. Agency labels on their flack jackets, helmets, belts, yes. But no personal names or badge #s when going in on a raid.
    In the halfway free country I grew up in (remember, until after the late 1960's, you could walk in and buy a gun for cash, stop at the hardware store and buy a case of dynamite for cash, etc.), it would have been UNTHINKABLE for black armored ninja to storm the homes of Americans (using techniques pioneered by the Gestapo but improved since then). We simply would not have tolerated it. Today, it's commonplace. But frankly, even today I don't feel very damned tolerant. There's NO NEED for 99% of the "dynamic entry" raids that happen, just a desire for the adrenaline rush and the thrill of terrorizing/intimidating people and the "big show" like happened at Mt. Carmel.

    Having a few guys on a PD who are good with a rifle, in case you have a clock tower shooter or barricaded suspect, makes sense. But situations requiring the typical extremely violent massive SWAT attack are rare. Hell, we invent new laws all the time, just to create more "criminals" so we can justify the police state BS. Save the ultraviolence for those who have initiated force against others, truly harmed others unnecessarily.

    Speaking of the "other side," I just talked with another guy who survived a SWAT attack by luck (didn't reach his gun in time to shoot back), that was supposedly directed at a different person, who had a very different address. He spent six hours in handcuffs, received no apology for the attack or the wanton destruction of his home. After the fact, he watched officers cross out an address and fill in another on the partly blank warrant, illegally altering a federal document. He's not uncommon, just more collateral damage of the American Police State. The ******** who attacked his home had a good time and will certainly suffer no consequences. I truly WISH every SWAT member and SWAT wannabe could be in his shoes at least once.

    I don't care what agency name or alphabet soup is stenciled on the black armor, their BEHAVIOR brands them terrorists. I've always believe actions speak louder than words, and some actions are unmistakable.

    Once again, I definitely WILL help a Peace Officer, if I'm sure he's truly a Peace Officer and a Good Guy. I will not help a Terrorist Enforcer or a Revenue Collector. Nor will I invite myself into a deadly game without being CERTAIN who the players are.
    “The police of a State should never be stronger or better armed than the citizenry. An armed citizenry, willing to fight is the foundation of civil freedom.” Heinlein

  4. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hamilton Felix View Post
    In the halfway free country I grew up in (remember, until after the late 1960's, you could walk in and buy a gun for cash, stop at the hardware store and buy a case of dynamite for cash, etc.), it would have been UNTHINKABLE for black armored ninja to storm the homes of Americans (using techniques pioneered by the Gestapo but improved since then). We simply would not have tolerated it. Today, it's commonplace. But frankly, even today I don't feel very damned tolerant. There's NO NEED for 99% of the "dynamic entry" raids that happen, just a desire for the adrenaline rush and the thrill of terrorizing/intimidating people and the "big show" like happened at Mt. Carmel.

    Having a few guys on a PD who are good with a rifle, in case you have a clock tower shooter or barricaded suspect, makes sense. But situations requiring the typical extremely violent massive SWAT attack are rare. Hell, we invent new laws all the time, just to create more "criminals" so we can justify the police state BS. Save the ultraviolence for those who have initiated force against others, truly harmed others unnecessarily.

    Speaking of the "other side," I just talked with another guy who survived a SWAT attack by luck (didn't reach his gun in time to shoot back), that was supposedly directed at a different person, who had a very different address. He spent six hours in handcuffs, received no apology for the attack or the wanton destruction of his home. After the fact, he watched officers cross out an address and fill in another on the partly blank warrant, illegally altering a federal document. He's not uncommon, just more collateral damage of the American Police State. The ******** who attacked his home had a good time and will certainly suffer no consequences. I truly WISH every SWAT member and SWAT wannabe could be in his shoes at least once.

    I don't care what agency name or alphabet soup is stenciled on the black armor, their BEHAVIOR brands them terrorists. I've always believe actions speak louder than words, and some actions are unmistakable.

    Once again, I definitely WILL help a Peace Officer, if I'm sure he's truly a Peace Officer and a Good Guy. I will not help a Terrorist Enforcer or a Revenue Collector. Nor will I invite myself into a deadly game without being CERTAIN who the players are.
    There actually have been those in LE that have been doing it for a long time. Revenuers ( tax agents ) did it also. Way back. They would swing in and destroy property and maybe get into gunfights. One of the problems we have down here is chop shops ( cut up stolen autos for parts ). And drugs. Both groups tend to be well armed. And as was proven down here recently, not going in like that can have bad affects. Bad guys have guns too, unfortunately. As far as what happened to the person you know, that shows poor training on their part. He needs to get a good lawyer and take the SWAT team to the AG. That also is one reason I've been keeping my eyes on the Patriot Act. I've lived in countries where there were terrorist in the late 50s and early 60s.

  5. There actually have been those in LE that have been doing it for a long time. Revenuers ( tax agents ) did it also. Way back. They would swing in and destroy property and maybe get into gunfights. One of the problems we have down here is chop shops ( cut up stolen autos for parts ). And drugs. Both groups tend to be well armed. And as was proven down here recently, not going in like that can have bad affects. Bad guys have guns too, unfortunately. As far as what happened to the person you know, that shows poor training on their part. He needs to get a good lawyer and take the SWAT team to the AG. That also is one reason I've been keeping my eyes on the Patriot Act. I've lived in countries where there were terrorist in the late 50s and early 60s.
    Like
    Yes, I'm aware there's a lot of bad history going way back. As to the the raid victim I mentioned, he's just one of many. I doubt he'll get much satisfaction. He's actually lucky; he's alive and he didn't have a kid killed for holding a TV remote, or even have any dogs killed. Many SWAT victims are not so lucky. (Talk to Randy Weaver sometime; I have.) Even when they raid a city Mayor by mistake (to mention a fairly recent news item), and the guy is Black, not much happens to the teams doing it.

    Frankly, though the mainstream prefers to suppress such stuff, I think Vigilance Committees have a better success record than police forces. Not making a recommendation one way or another, just pointing it out.

    Locally, I've seen the County Sheriff's office only get busy and clean out a well-known bunch of thieving meth-heads after word got out that the locals were fed up and were about to take care of it. Police need criminals, or there's no need for Police, Judges, Courts, Prosecuting Attornies, Jailers, etc. It's a symbiosis.

    Let me clarify: When I graduated high school, I wanted to be a cop, be a Good Guy. Back then, Police and Firemen were Good Guys. My best friend and "adopted bro." since Jr. High did become a cop, after a hitch in the Service. He just recently retired after 30+ years with King County, more than a little disillusioned. I've been a volunteer EMT/firefighter and a VFD Chief; I've worked with good cops and bad cops, even lived with a vicious, sadistic psychotic cop as a neighbor. I've seen good young cops become disillusioned and quit. I'm about to marry my One True Love, a former cop. She has "seen the elephant," still bearing a knife scar from a child rapist who has since become fertilizer. She completely understands what I'm saying here.

    Times are changing. I've seen seen the aggressive recruiting by LAPD and CHP on Marine Bases. They want Warriors, not Peace Officers. I feel my guts churn each time a cop refers to "civilians" as if he was something other than a civilian.

    Forming black armored "ultra violence" teams who attack American homes (or Doctors' offices because a Government bureaucrat thinks too many painkillers are being prescribed, or manufacturers and businesses because they are accused of errors in record keeping), is not something calculated to make citizens like police. Yep, every now and then a show of force is needed. But there is nothing Government does that does not go bad and become abusive, NOTHING. I feel certain we're headed for a very serious societal backlash against the police (the politicians deserve it, but the police are more visible and they have become the tools of those politicians). As the economy worsens, and people become more desperate and angry than comfortable, it will get very ugly, very fast. Many police sense this, and that's why so many operate from fear and are so quick to pull the trigger.

    Today, in 2011, I live in a small logging town. Virtually everyone is a hunter; it is assumed every normal person has guns. We don't have home invasions, and violent street crime is unheard of. Sure tweakers will occasionally steal things that are unattended, but you don't attack citizens. In this day and age, I am certain I face a greater risk of death by home invasion from the Government than from freelance criminals. All it takes is a mistaken address, a criminal with a name similar to mine, a false accusation by a disgruntled neighbor, or a druggie under arrest and trying to make a deal, who says "uhh.. those people there sell drugs." That's the truth of the 21st century American Police State.

    As I've said, I will help the man or woman whom I KNOW to be the Good Guy. I will NOT help someone simply because of how he's dressed; he may still be the Bad Guy, or he may shoot me because he doesn't know who I am. After all, if he's a cop, he usually gets a "buy" on the shoot by saying "I believed my life was in danger" (this is why Amadou Diallo was a "good shoot"). As an ordinary citizen with CPL, I fall under different rules.

    This is NOT the mid-20th century world we grew up in. Our choices must reflect that, particularly when our lives may depend on those choices.

    My friend, Ken, recently deceased, who grew up in N. Dakota on the Montana border, told of the County Sheriff, "Joe" who often visited the family ranch when Ken was a kid. Joe wore jeans and a sport coat, seldom bothered to put on a gun, though he'd stick a .38 in his pocket if he had to serve a warrant. One day, young Ken said excitedly, "Where's your gun? What if you need your gun?"

    Joe simply let his eyes sweep the horizon, scanning past the neighboring ranches, and answered "Oh, I figure there's plenty of guns here if I need 'em." What Joe was saying was that he KNEW without a doubt that every rancher there would pick up a rifle and put his life on the line to back Joe's play if he needed it. Speaking directly to today's Police Officers: If you cannot say that, you just failed the most important test of your life.

    We face the old Chinese curse of living in "interesting times." I will help those I know to be on the side of right, stay out of it if I don't know the score, and defend against those I know to be wrong. And I will NEVER make the mistake of assuming Government is automatically right. Human nature has not changed. History has many lessons. And it repeats, with a vengeance.
    “The police of a State should never be stronger or better armed than the citizenry. An armed citizenry, willing to fight is the foundation of civil freedom.” Heinlein

  6. By the way, FDR first gave the FBI authorization to carry guns a couple of months after they got into a shootout that failed to bag Dillinger but nailed an innocent bystander or two.
    Last edited by Hamilton Felix; 02-09-2011 at 03:32 PM. Reason: cyber hiccup, duplicate post
    “The police of a State should never be stronger or better armed than the citizenry. An armed citizenry, willing to fight is the foundation of civil freedom.” Heinlein

  7. I would say it's a bad idea to pull a hand gun to assist a LEO is in trouble, if his back up shows up, they may think you are one of the bad guys and take you down. I would call 911 first and let them know what going on, officer in need of assistant, and that you are not one of the bad buy, what you are wearing and your physical description first so when they broadcast the information, they will know there is a good guy at the location also. If you must help, use pepper spray if you have it, stun gun or taser, but it is a real bad idea to pull your weapon if they are rolling around since you may shot the LEO instead and putting your life in danger since the LEO on the ground see you pulling your weapon, he may just shot you first before asking if you are one of the bad buys. Just my two cents worth. You may wish to ask do you need my help if the LEO is still able to speak.

  8. Not to mention, there's increasing incidence of crimes, including home invasions, being committed by people impersonating Police. So much so, that today lots of people won't believe someone is a cop just because he says so and flashes a badge.

    Was listening on radio to December incident in Seattle, that just came to light because the video got out of the cop kicking the suspect in the head after suspect was handcuffed and on the ground: Off duty cop and friend in bar, go to leave and their coats are gone; find lady in parking lot holding what they believe to be their coats. Lady says no, cop flashes badge and says he's a cop, lady says anyone can get a fake badge and starts walking off. Cop and friend follow, while calling 911. Three other guys from bar see them at this point, think they're after the lady and come to her aid. Badge is flashed again, other guys don't buy it and jump cop and friend. Scuffle is not going well for cop and friend, when responding uniforms show up and one of 'em recognizes cop on ground. Parties are separated and the three guys cuffed. Off duty cop then stomps in the face, the handcuffed suspect who was stomping him earlier, bouncing his skull off the pavement in manner that looks pretty impressive on the video he forgot about.

    Lesson: You can't tell the players without a program. This is probably why, by actual body count, Police kill ten times as many innocent bystanders as non-police armed citizens defending themselves. When you arrive late to the party, you cannot always tell who is the Good Guy.
    “The police of a State should never be stronger or better armed than the citizenry. An armed citizenry, willing to fight is the foundation of civil freedom.” Heinlein

  9. I think the only intelligent action for a 'civilian' is to call 911 and be a good witness.

  10. #119
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    I think the most intelligent action for a peon is to look the other way and move on. Better not to be there when the rest of them arrive.
    Better to perish in the struggle for freedom than live to see defeat. There ARE things to be feared more than death. The fyrd is a Constitutional imperative.

  11. #120
    Basically, if I see a cop in trouble, struggling with another person, I help the cop. Whatever that entails, whatever I have to do, I do it. If it means shooting the other guy, I shoot him.
    Big Gay Al: Big Gay Al's Big Gay (Gun) Blog
    An unarmed person speaking of the benefits of gun control is like a
    eunuch speaking about the benefits of sexual abstinence.

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