CCW'er Defends Himself at Walmart (N Las Vegas) - Page 4
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Thread: CCW'er Defends Himself at Walmart (N Las Vegas)

  1. #31

    jail

    Quote Originally Posted by Treo View Post
    The police have rules of engagement criminals do not. Knock me to the ground in a fight and I am going to draw
    and then ill call the police and have you arrested for thratening me with a gun. i forgot the legal term

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  3. #32

    waaaaah

    Quote Originally Posted by ClearSightTactical View Post
    You study the penal code, eh? I'll leave that alone. Each state has their own statutes and procedures. Its not wise to make such generalizations. If a teenager throws a 70 year old man who uses a walking device (cane, etc) to the ground and continues the attack is this not potentially deadly for the man?

    I can think of multiple situations where I believe a person would be justified in using deadly force after being thrown to the ground. Especially if the attack continues, and especially if disparity of force exists.

    Here is the result of being thrown to the ground (albeit by multiple people estimated around 15 by witnesses). I have no doubt I would've been killed if not for my duty partner and police officers getting there on time (imagine that). Broken sinus bone which luckily healed on its own. Torn muscles all over body, had my ankle stomped, I was wearing a vest and had boot prints all over me including my torso, I had bruised and sore ribs which may well would have been broken if not for the vest. I speak with some experience on the subject that once you go to the ground anything can happen. To answer you next question NO I did not shoot. While being kicked in the head I could not see, at last count my partner was next to me I did not want to fire and end up hitting my partner, also felt that if I drew my weapon could have been taken from me and used against my partner and other innocents.Then I was knocked out by what witnesses believe was 45-60 seconds after hitting the ground (ya, I was trying to get up...didn't work well) when one person connected solidly with their heal on the right side of my face, knocking my head into the ground.
    i do study the penal code in my state. why is it that a strong person throws down a much weaker person. why cant it be just 2 able people.why is it always david vs the giant (i forgot the name).sorry you were hurt . but it seems you were in a fight. not just being throw to the ground.....lets be safe out there

  4. #33

    good point

    Quote Originally Posted by santa View Post
    regarding armed-an-rdy comment that it sounded like i wished i had a gun, i dont wish, i own and carry one. i have spent days in class and on the range when i went to the peace officers acadamy. i practice frequently and always try to do better. i have had to use my gun a few times but i always have preferred to walk away when possible, but sometimes it is not feasible. after being thrown to the ground it is simply not feasible to back away and i will be damned if i do not use my gun to defend myself. the assailent could still have a concealed gun or knife. steeled-toe boots and fists can cause much damage or death. i realize that there may be consequences depending on the state you live in but the key word here is LIVE. and i intend to keep doing so.
    however, you still are not legally able to draw your weapon when you are simply throw to the ground, read your penal code and get back to me

  5. #34

    natural inatics

    Quote Originally Posted by armed-an-rdy View Post
    however, you still are not legally able to draw your weapon when you are simply throw to the ground, read your penal code and get back to me
    Well, my penal code says this:

    A person is privileged to threaten or intentionally use force against another for the purpose of preventing or terminating what the person reasonably believes to be an unlawful interference with his or her person by such other person. The actor may intentionally use only such force or threat thereof as the actor reasonably believes is necessary to prevent or terminate the interference. The actor may not intentionally use force which is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm unless the actor reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself.

    And that sounds to me like if someone throws me to the ground I have a reason to fear for my life. I am 6'3", and 245, so if I hit the ground at the will of someone attacking me, they are obviously not going to let me have the chance to get back up and fight back, or even run away. So you can bet your ***** I am going to draw and given a reason I will dump a round or 2 into the part of their body that will make them stop attacking the fastest.

    I agree with TREO, there is far too much chance that when someone knocks you down, they are going to make it a point not to let you back up. So the only reasonable way to view this is that the attacker intends to cause great bodily harm or death.
    .... And let the one having no sword sell his outer garment and buy one. ~God
    http://www.cjdefense.com/ Wisconsin

  6. Quote Originally Posted by armed-an-rdy View Post
    however, you still are not legally able to draw your weapon when you are simply throw to the ground, read your penal code and get back to me
    Your mind is already made up, even though you are entirely incorrect. A person is allowed to defend themselves with any means up to and including deadly force if they believe they are in immanent jeopardy of great bodily injury or death. Great bodily injury is interpreted by many subject matter experts to include permanent disfigurement.

    Now I'm not saying a person is automatically justified when they hit the ground, I'm just disagreeing with your absolutist 100% of the time its not justified.
    Quick to the gun, Sure of your grip. Quick to the threat, sure of your shot. - Chris Costa

  7. #36
    Join Date
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    At least in SC, presumption of imminent threat of great bodily injury or death is the prerequisite. No comments about how that presumption is determined--that is in the mind of the CC person. Of course, the CC better be darn sure that his instincts are terrifying enough to convince authorities that the presumption was there. Somehow, before being thrown to the ground, you had better have had a chance to avoid the confrontation, to yell and scream that you are not interested in a confrontation (that helps get witnesses within earshot), and an understanding that the other party either has a potentially deadly weapon on himself or is obviously in a position to impose himself on you in a deadly fashion---all of this adds up to a legitimate presumption on your part. Easy to say in words, not so sure about the real thing. Situational awareness is still numero uno in my book--you do things that very much minimize any potential confrontation of any kind, all the time.

  8. #37
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by armed-an-rdy View Post
    and then ill call the police and have you arrested for thratening me with a gun. i forgot the legal term
    I would think the legal term would be justifiable self defense. And I promise that if you didn't make some positive life changes between the time I cleared leather and the time I lined up my sights you wouldn't be calling anybody
    See, it's mumbo jumbo like that and skinny little lizards like you thinking they the last dragon that gives Kung Fu a bad name.
    http://www.gunrightsmedia.com/ Internet forum dedicated to second amendment

  9. #38

    like i said

    Quote Originally Posted by CalicoJack10 View Post
    Well, my penal code says this:

    A person is privileged to threaten or intentionally use force against another for the purpose of preventing or terminating what the person reasonably believes to be an unlawful interference with his or her person by such other person. The actor may intentionally use only such force or threat thereof as the actor reasonably believes is necessary to prevent or terminate the interference. The actor may not intentionally use force which is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm unless the actor reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself.

    And that sounds to me like if someone throws me to the ground I have a reason to fear for my life. I am 6'3", and 245, so if I hit the ground at the will of someone attacking me, they are obviously not going to let me have the chance to get back up and fight back, or even run away. So you can bet your ***** I am going to draw and given a reason I will dump a round or 2 into the part of their body that will make them stop attacking the fastest.

    I agree with TREO, there is far too much chance that when someone knocks you down, they are going to make it a point not to let you back up. So the only reasonable way to view this is that the attacker intends to cause great bodily harm or death.
    i like the part that says (the actor may not intentionally which is intended or likely to cause death

  10. #39

    thank you

    Quote Originally Posted by kelcarry View Post
    At least in SC, presumption of imminent threat of great bodily injury or death is the prerequisite. No comments about how that presumption is determined--that is in the mind of the CC person. Of course, the CC better be darn sure that his instincts are terrifying enough to convince authorities that the presumption was there. Somehow, before being thrown to the ground, you had better have had a chance to avoid the confrontation, to yell and scream that you are not interested in a confrontation (that helps get witnesses within earshot), and an understanding that the other party either has a potentially deadly weapon on himself or is obviously in a position to impose himself on you in a deadly fashion---all of this adds up to a legitimate presumption on your part. Easy to say in words, not so sure about the real thing. Situational awareness is still numero uno in my book--you do things that very much minimize any potential confrontation of any kind, all the time.
    very well said

  11. #40

    yourfunny

    Quote Originally Posted by Treo View Post
    I would think the legal term would be justifiable self defense. And I promise that if you didn't make some positive life changes between the time I cleared leather and the time I lined up my sights you wouldn't be calling anybody
    let me finish that for you shall i. and when the police come and you tell them i thown you to the ground thats why you shot me. wellboth go to jail and ill get out before ,if i survive the shot.

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