Had to Remove a Student Today - Opinions Sought - Page 2
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Thread: Had to Remove a Student Today - Opinions Sought

  1. #11

    Cool

    [QUOTE=roguejesse;189962].

    I don't think he should of been expelled as quickly as some people suggested. But after a few serious safety violations, you had every right, and a duty to all around, to remove him.

    This guy committed more than a few violations. It only takes one to kill yourself or others around you. I wouldn't want to be around him on a range
    or in the same county.

  2.   
  3. #12
    I will admit that I have looked down the barrel of a loaded gun once or twice in the past. No digits anywhere near the trigger though. And I didn't do it at the range or in school, but in the privacy of my home, and alone.

    This guy has probably done it thousands of times. So to him it's perfectly safe. Was his finger on the trigger?

    I think this is one of those things that are dangerous and safe at the same time. Sure you are pointing a loaded gun at your eye/head. On the other hand, how many accidental shootings do we hear about where the guy is shot in the eye versus the hand or some other part of the body?

    Not that I am condoning his actions, and I would have given him the boot the first time. Stuff like this shouldn't get a second chance on the range or in school. Once you hammer the 4 rules, enforce them.
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18
    Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But...
    Paramedics With Guns Scare People!

  4. #13

    I'm with Gunny

    The only thing you might have done is get rid of him faster.

    Him arguing would have sealed his fate in my eyes.

  5. For the official record... my official opinion, not worth the bandwith for you to read it anyway... is that he should have been expelled sooner.

    Although, I still hold that doesn't do anything to cleanse the gene pool....
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

  6. #15
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Rocky River, Ohio
    Posts
    1,523
    At our club we don't play around with safety.

    If you're corrected and refuse to adjust your behavior, you're gone.

  7. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Grognard Gunny View Post
    Personally, I believe you waited too long to take "terminal corrective action". My policy , one warning. A repeat got you gone from the line AND the range.

    Besides, the safety of every person on that line depends on my doing my job... insuring that safety matters are strictly followed. I don't tolerate screw ups.

    GG
    Absolutely, First one is free, 2nd one, you're on the way home.
    War to the Knife, Knife to the hilt.
    If we don't want to live in a trashy area, we all have to be willing to help pick up the trash.

  8. #17
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    State of Confusion
    Posts
    7,733
    Thanks everyone. I agree, he should have been tossed sooner. Our police trainer was about to give him a "boot colonoscopy." We met today to discuss the situation on Sunday and how we might handle it in the future. The other instructors thought there was something "missing" in this guy.

    I got an email from one of the students today that said...

    "Bob In response to your post in usa carry forum, I was a student in your class that day and these are my thoughts. I think you and your staff showed remarkable patience and restraint in dealing with this person. It was like having Curly of the Three Stooges to deal with. On Sat. he was annoying, but on Sun. he was a life-threating situation. Perhaps this gentleman might benefit from a more basic course such as "Eddie Eagle", although I would not wish this guy on another NRA instructor. I thoroughly enjoyed your classes and cannot place a dollar value on the instruction I received. I will highly recommend your class to anyone considering carrying a fire arm for self-defense. You and your staff are truely professionals of the highest order."

    I'm humbled by this student's comments. Thanks to all of you for your advice. Next time we'll move faster to expell.

    Stay safe out there,
    BC
    GOD, GUNS and GUITARS

  9. When I was stationed in Norfolk Virginia there was an old chief gunners mate that ran the range at Little Creek. He used to punctuate every range rule with the phrase "Or I will shoot you"

    As in:

    1. You will keep your weapon pointed downrange at all times...Or I will shoot you.

    2. You will not load your weapon until instructed to do so...or I will shoot you

    3. Should you experience a weapon malfunction you will keep your weapon pointed down range and raise your non firing hand for assistance...Or I will shoot you.

    He wore a 1911 in a low slung thigh holster and everybody believed that he would not hesitate to shoot someone who got out of line...

    As to your disruptive student, you absolutely did the right thing. He was a classic example of unconcious incompetance with delusions of baddassery. Good on you for not putting up with it and taking care of business.

  10. Quote Originally Posted by Doc Mustang View Post
    When I was stationed in Norfolk Virginia there was an old chief gunners mate that ran the range at Little Creek. He used to punctuate every range rule with the phrase "Or I will shoot you"
    Sounds similar to a safety briefing I heard at one event. "Shoot the targets downrange or anyone pointing a gun at you"...

    Of course, nobody shot anyone for the couple of accidental muzzle sweeps that did end up happening throughout the day, but it made everyone very aware.

    In the original case, I'm surprised you didn't toss him earlier. Some of us are slower to grasp concepts and do make safety mistakes early on (remember, not everyone grew up with guns). Sometimes those of us that are very new make an error because we're hurrying, trying to not slow everyone else down. However, there's a difference between making beginner's mistakes and actively resisting knowledge/improvement. Sounds like this guy had multiple of the FAA's hazardous attitudes going on. I think that the basic concept behind those attitudes can be applied to gun safety as well. Eye of Experience #15:<br>Hazardous Attitudes Revisited

  11. Quote Originally Posted by paramedic70002 View Post
    I will admit that I have looked down the barrel of a loaded gun once or twice in the past.

    I think this is one of those things that are dangerous and safe at the same time. Sure you are pointing a loaded gun at your eye/head.
    This is not good practice. I cannot comprehend any circumstance that would require my pointing a loaded gun at my head.

    Later in your post you mention the "4 rules" They exist for a reason and should always be respected. There is no such thing as an activity that is dangerous and safe at the same time. There is only a continumm of risk. There are activities that provide an illusion of risk, such as riding a rollercoaster, and activities that provide an illusion of safety like SCUBA diving or rock climbing.

    Pointing a loaded weapon in an unsafe direction is the first step in a chain of events that leads to accidental injury or death. Regardless of where one's fingers are located.

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