Accidents happen, but this "father" needs to man up
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Thread: Accidents happen, but this "father" needs to man up

  1. #1

    Accidents happen, but this "father" needs to man up

    A 9-year-old finds a loaded .22 in his father's bedroom drawer and then unintentionally shoots an 11-year-old friend. Sounds like the kid will be OK, although he is in intensive care.

    I would generally think that the threat of removing the children from the home if the guns were not removed is a bit much, but then the father blames his "older son" for the father's failure to secure the father's handgun:

    "My older son left it loaded. We'd just got back from shooting a couple of days before. It's that simple. It was a tragedy."

    No, you didn't check your gun that was in your bedroom drawer.

    And just how old is this "older son" who you have made responsible for securing your firearms?

    What next, parents blaming kids for their auto accidents and Oxycodone addictions?

    Boy Accidently Shoots Friend In Volusia Co.

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  3. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by nogods View Post
    A 9-year-old finds a loaded .22 in his father's bedroom drawer and then unintentionally shoots an 11-year-old friend. Sounds like the kid will be OK, although he is in intensive care.

    I would generally think that the threat of removing the children from the home if the guns were not removed is a bit much, but then the father blames his "older son" for the father's failure to secure the father's handgun:

    "My older son left it loaded. We'd just got back from shooting a couple of days before. It's that simple. It was a tragedy."

    No, you didn't check your gun that was in your bedroom drawer.

    And just how old is this "older son" who you have made responsible for securing your firearms?

    What next, parents blaming kids for their auto accidents and Oxycodone addictions?

    Boy Accidently Shoots Friend In Volusia Co.
    I would charge the father with criminal negligence.
    GOD, GUNS and GUITARS

  4. #3
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    Removing the children if the guns aren't removed is exactly what should happen. If he isn't responsible enough to ensure that his guns are safely stored and secured, then yes, it should be either the kids or the guns. He's just lucky the other boy didn't die.
    Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.

    Benjamin Franklin

  5. #4
    An update on the story states that the older brother is 15-years old, the gun belonged to the father, and the gun was stored in the bedroom drawer of the 15-year old.

    Bizarre thinking on the part of this father.

  6. #5
    If you have kids, you need to "Gun-Proof" your kids. The best way is though educating them. NRA has the Eddie Eagle program. Teach them that the gun is not a toy, and what to do when they find one. Eliminate their curiosity, telling them not to touch it will only make them curious and they will find the firearm no matter where you hide it. It is never too early to teach your children gun safety rules.

    There is no need to have the .22 loaded in a drawer, it's a poor choice for a home defense weapon. That gun should of been in a gun safe; never liked the gun locks.
    Beware the Fury of a patient man.

  7. #6
    I agree the father should answer to charges of some kind,any time a kid is injured with a firearm,charges should be looked at. How ever, I do have mixed emotions. I always left my firearms loaded around the home after my 3 kids(2 girls,1 boy) reached the age 6 or so. (might have been a bit older) I drilled gun safety into my kids heads and they handled my firearms so much that they no longer had the curiosity factor. We shot the firearms weekly and by the time they reached 11 or 12 they shot as well as most adults. They could break down and clean any firearm we had. I hid my handguns around the house,I'm sure they knew where they were at any given time. Any time we had company with kids,I always remove the guns from curious kids. I'm sure I'll be flamed for this.

  8. Quote Originally Posted by tattedupboy View Post
    Removing the children if the guns aren't removed is exactly what should happen. If he isn't responsible enough to ensure that his guns are safely stored and secured, then yes, it should be either the kids or the guns. He's just lucky the other boy didn't die.
    This is a bit extreme. He has had a hell of a wake up call, now is the time for education not radical action. There are times when a persons rights need to be taken away but this is not one of them. Educating him on taking responsibility (starting with not blaming his other minor son for his own negligence) would be a first step. Manditory firearms safety courses for himself and his 15 year old would be a start. In addition to a fine and probation. At the very least a substantial civil penalty should be awarded to the victims family.

    Clearly if this results in a felony conviction then you could talk of taking away his rights. But thus far nothing warrents taking away his children or his guns

    Quote Originally Posted by retirednak View Post
    I agree the father should answer to charges of some kind,any time a kid is injured with a firearm,charges should be looked at. How ever, I do have mixed emotions. I always left my firearms loaded around the home after my 3 kids(2 girls,1 boy) reached the age 6 or so. (might have been a bit older) I drilled gun safety into my kids heads and they handled my firearms so much that they no longer had the curiosity factor. We shot the firearms weekly and by the time they reached 11 or 12 they shot as well as most adults. They could break down and clean any firearm we had. I hid my handguns around the house,I'm sure they knew where they were at any given time. Any time we had company with kids,I always remove the guns from curious kids. I'm sure I'll be flamed for this.
    Good on you for training your own children. However, If your children are anything like mine they have freinds over. I know you addressed this but an important concept to stress here is threat level. If your home was under continuous real threat of invasion such that you felt the need to stash guns around the house why not carry a handgun on your person at all times? Carrying allows you to always know where the weapon is and that it is not in the hands of your kid or your kids curious freinds. Home defense shotguns or other long guns could be kept in rapid access storage devices that would provide some degree of security. Additionally steps should be taken to mitigate the threat. Keeping bushes trimmed away from windows. Strong, secure entry points, motion detetion lighting, an alarm system, and possibly a dog can go a long way toward threat mitigation and management. Also situations that would make you a target such as storing large sums of cash, or precious metals in your home should be eliminated. All of therse are part of an integrated approach to security.

    Clearly it is up to you the individual to make a threat assessment, make decisions to mitigate the threat, practice good risk management in developing a threat managment plan. Stashing unsecured loaded firearms around the house is can be more of a risk than your threat of being targeted for home invasion.

  9. #8
    Education,Education,Education,Education,Education.

    And yes a 15yr old should be responsible enough. Quit babying your kids. By the age of 16 you should be moved out and taking care of yourself, If not then the parents aren't doing their job!
    Ed
    "The tree of Liberty needs to be watered from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson 3rd president of US (1743 - 1826)

  10. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Edsworld View Post
    Education,Education,Education,Education,Education.

    And yes a 15yr old should be responsible enough. Quit babying your kids. By the age of 16 you should be moved out and taking care of yourself, If not then the parents aren't doing their job!
    Perhaps you haven't heard of the science of brain development and hormones.

    While there may be a 15-year-old or two in the world with a fully matured brain, the great majority are just entering the "hey, watch what I can do" age at that point in their lives.

    UCLA researchers compared MRI scans of young adults, 23-30, with those of teens, 12-16. They looked for signs of myelin, which would imply more mature, efficient connections, within gray matter.

    As expected, areas of the frontal lobe showed the largest differences between young adults and teens. This increased myelination in the adult frontal cortex likely relates to the maturation of cognitive processing and other "executive" functions.

    Parietal and temporal areas mediating spatial, sensory, auditory and language functions appeared largely mature in the teen brain. The observed late maturation of the frontal lobe conspicuously coincides with the typical age-of-onset of schizophrenia—late teens, early twenties—which, as noted earlier, is characterized by impaired "executive" functioning.
    Sowell ER, Thompson PM, Holmes CJ, et al. In vivo evidence for post-adolescent brain maturation in frontal and striatal regions. Nature Neuroscience, 1999; 2(10): 859-61.

    Or in more layman's terms, as explained by Neurologist Francis Jensen:

    Jensen says scientists used to think human brain development was pretty complete by age 10. Or as she puts it, that "a teenage brain is just an adult brain with fewer miles on it."

    But it's not. To begin with, she says, a crucial part of the brain — the frontal lobes — are not fully connected. Really.

    "It's the part of the brain that says: 'Is this a good idea? What is the consequence of this action?' " Jensen says. "It's not that they don't have a frontal lobe. And they can use it. But they're going to access it more slowly."

    That's because the nerve cells that connect teenagers' frontal lobes with the rest of their brains are sluggish. Teenagers don't have as much of the fatty coating called myelin, or "white matter," that adults have in this area.

    Think of it as insulation on an electrical wire. Nerves need myelin for nerve signals to flow freely. Spotty or thin myelin leads to inefficient communication between one part of the brain and another.

  11. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by tattedupboy View Post
    Removing the children if the guns aren't removed is exactly what should happen. If he isn't responsible enough to ensure that his guns are safely stored and secured, then yes, it should be either the kids or the guns. He's just lucky the other boy didn't die.
    Well I will be the one to say it then,If the kid is not smart enough to follow the directions of his father and the request of the older brother about not touching the older brother's things he needs to receive an ass whooping for not listening to his brother request and his father's direction of if it don't belong to you don't touch it.

    While it is easier to blame the parent, the 9 year old kid should hold some responsibly for his actions. when I was 8 I had a .22lr rifle and I knew not to point it at people or the farm animals, squirrels out in the fields and snakes under the bridge laying on logs waiting for frogs was fair game. I agree that the father should have educated his sons better on firearm safety but to take away his right to own a firearm is going to far in my opinion. The gun belongs to his 15 year old son so that gun was not the fathers. The father bought it for his son so it belongs to the son not him and it is the sons responsibly to make sure it is stored safety away.

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