FBI NICS denied my pistol - Page 6
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Thread: FBI NICS denied my pistol

  1. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by snatale42 View Post
    That's all you can ask? How about asking for your American Rights?
    And what "American rights" do you think the NYS laws violate? NYS is a shall issue state for home defense. Yes it is possible that a particular issuing officer might refuse to issue a pistol permit for a reason that does not pass muster under the Constitution, but the law is facially valid, it's improper application by a particular issuing officer gets resolved by court action.

    I'm working, like many others, to expand the rights of New Yorkers to own firearms. To accomplish that, we have to be able to distinguished between what laws are constitutionally valid and what laws need to be changed by the political process instead of court challenge. Not knowing the difference is a waste of effort.

    Jumping up and down and screaming about "American rights" that don't exist will not aid that effort.

    We can be smart and get something accomplished, or we can be ignorant and make a lot of noise.

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  3. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by nogods View Post
    And what "American rights" do you think the NYS laws violate? NYS is a shall issue state for home defense. Yes it is possible that a particular issuing officer might refuse to issue a pistol permit for a reason that does not pass muster under the Constitution, but the law is facially valid, it's improper application by a particular issuing officer gets resolved by court action.

    I'm working, like many others, to expand the rights of New Yorkers to own firearms. To accomplish that, we have to be able to distinguished between what laws are constitutionally valid and what laws need to be changed by the political process instead of court challenge. Not knowing the difference is a waste of effort.

    Jumping up and down and screaming about "American rights" that don't exist will not aid that effort.

    We can be smart and get something accomplished, or we can be ignorant and make a lot of noise.
    Sorry, Constitutional Rights, and I'm pretty sure that restricting people to home defense is why "Shall not be infringed" was put in there. As far as "making a lot of noise", Don't knock it. Making noise can accomplish a lot as long as the points are valid. Politely asking does nothing in a commie state. I'm from one, I know.

  4. #53
    To the original poster, I hope things work out....The XD is a fine weapon. Now one question.....The sullivan law only applies to NYC?? Afterall sullivan was only a mayor if I recall, and not the governor?

  5. Quote Originally Posted by c45man View Post
    To the original poster, I hope things work out....The XD is a fine weapon. Now one question.....The sullivan law only applies to NYC?? Afterall sullivan was only a mayor if I recall, and not the governor?
    Timothy Sullivan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Timothy Daniel Sullivan (July 23, 1862 August 31, 1913) was a New York politician who controlled Manhattan's Bowery and Lower East Side districts as a prominent figure within Tammany Hall. He was euphemistically known as "Dry Dollar", as the "Big Feller", and, later, as "Big Tim" (because of his physical stature). During the late 19th and early 20th centuries, he controlled much of the city's criminal activities between 14th Street and the Battery in New York City. He is credited as being one of the earliest ward representatives to use his position to enable the activities of criminal street gangs.
    One of the ways he enabled the activities of criminal street gangs was to start the NY State Pistol Permit System which effectively made self defense by use of a handgun by their victims a crime. But, of course, the NY Pistol Permit System is completely Constitutional, right nogods?

    Sullivan briefly served one term in the U.S. Congress from March 4, 1903 until his resignation on July 27, 1906. According to some accounts, Sullivan was dissatisfied with the graft and anonymity of political life in the Capitol prompting his resignation while remarking that "In NY, we use Congressmen for hitchin' posts."[2] He was later reelected to Congress in 1912, but due to ill health, never took his seat.[2] Instead, Big Tim chose to remain a state senator for most of his political career serving two terms in the New York State Senate from 1894 to 1903 and again from 1909 to 1912.
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

  6. #55
    Thank you navy.... Many years ago the American Rifleman did quite an article on him which was extensive to say the least. According to this article, the good mr. sullivan used his namesake act to control who got permits and who did not...cronies received them, the others, too bad.

  7. #56
    What in the world is a "shall issue state for home defense"?

    "Shall issue" refers universally to concealed carry permits, not a handgun you can own but can't carry.

    My brother-in-law lives in Queens. Just to purchase a handgun, he has to (1) jump through hoops, (2) pay hundreds of dollars in fees; (3) produce references, including one who'll sign a paper promising that if my brother-in-law dies, the reference will immediately scoot to the police station and inform the officers that a dead man's gun needs to be confiscated; (4) wait several months; and then (5) pay a couple of hundred dollars in fees every year he owns the gun. That qualifies as "shall issue"?

    And all this allows him only to keep the gun in his apartment. After all the fees and background checks and BS forms, he still can't possess that firearm anywhere but there. So even with possession of illegal guns rampant among street criminals, my brother-in-law as a law-abiding Air Force veteran cannot carry for self-defense.

    Somehow I don't think that's what Jefferson, Franklin, Adams, Hamilton, et alia had in mind. In fact, I'd say that the prohibitive fees alone constitute a violation of the Second Amendment.

    c45man: Yes, the Sullivan Law applies only in New York City. In fact, when I was a kid, you would read about the Sullivan Law more in connection with knives. Remember that in "West Side Story," the (highly romanticized) gangs carried knives, not guns. That was representative of the time (1961); the gangs of today are more technologically advanced.

    Note that gun-hating New York Senator Charles Schumer has a CCW permit, as do a bunch of celebrities, rich people, anti-gun newspaper editors, and people with political connections. Is that "equal protection of the laws"?

  8. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by nogods View Post
    And what "American rights" do you think the NYS laws violate? NYS is a shall issue state for home defense. Yes it is possible that a particular issuing officer might refuse to issue a pistol permit for a reason that does not pass muster under the Constitution, but the law is facially valid, it's improper application by a particular issuing officer gets resolved by court action.

    I'm working, like many others, to expand the rights of New Yorkers to own firearms. To accomplish that, we have to be able to distinguished between what laws are constitutionally valid and what laws need to be changed by the political process instead of court challenge. Not knowing the difference is a waste of effort.

    Jumping up and down and screaming about "American rights" that don't exist will not aid that effort.

    We can be smart and get something accomplished, or we can be ignorant and make a lot of noise.
    Unfortunately, standing up for your Constitutional Rights in New York is a dual purpose proposal. There are those who believe it means continuing the entitlement mentality that is pervasive in the largely populated areas. There are also very many anti-gunners that are not of the entitlement mentality that vote very liberal and very anti-gun. We cannot overcome the 6 million entitlement folks in the NYC area who will vote for those who are anti-gun. It's that simple. We can stand up all we want for our Constitutional Rights, but it is not possible to move the needle.

    Giuliani was the most conservative mayor NYC has seen in years, and gun rights went in the wrong direction even with him. Bloomberg wants to crack down on "illegal guns" which is brilliant marketing, but the real agenda as we all know is to make the guns illegal first, then crack down on those who have them. In NYC, if you have a NYS pistol permit (CCW) not endorsed by NYC (which, by the way is now not even considered, as the new law states you must be a NYC resident to have a pistol permit endorsed by NYC) and get caught in possession (not carrying) of your handgun, you face arrest and a minimum MANDATORY sentence of 1 year in jail. If you have a valid NYS pistol permit (CCW) not endorsed by NYC and get caught carrying your gun, you face arrest and a 3 year minimum mandatory sentence with a possibility of up to 10 years in jail. Does anyone think that horse has left the barn here?

    Before LEOSA, NYPD was taught in the academy (as were other PD throughout the state) that when they came across out of state police officers that were off duty, to arrest those carrying a weapon as NYS did not grant reciprocity to other police agencies outside NYS.

    Now, my statement of "all we can ask" that has drawn some criticism stands, as this is a hot anti-gun state. The laws are ridiculous. Unfortunately, I can't move away from them so I can work within them or spend my time complaining about them. Hopefully, we can change them. Until that day comes, there is no choice for some of us.

  9. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by BamaBoy View Post
    "Shall issue" refers universally to concealed carry permits, not a handgun you can own but can't carry.
    Which is something you don't currently have in Alabama.

    Quote Originally Posted by BamaBoy View Post
    My brother-in-law lives in Queens. Just to purchase a handgun, he has to (1) jump through hoops, (2) pay hundreds of dollars in fees; (3) produce references, including one who'll sign a paper promising that if my brother-in-law dies, the reference will immediately scoot to the police station and inform the officers that a dead man's gun needs to be confiscated; (4) wait several months; and then (5) pay a couple of hundred dollars in fees every year he owns the gun. That qualifies as "shall issue"?
    No it does not. And neither does letting Alabama Sheriffs decide who does or does not get a carry permit based on whatever standards they feel like at the time.

    Quote Originally Posted by BamaBoy View Post
    And all this allows him only to keep the gun in his apartment. After all the fees and background checks and BS forms, he still can't possess that firearm anywhere but there. So even with possession of illegal guns rampant among street criminals, my brother-in-law as a law-abiding Air Force veteran cannot carry for self-defense.

    Somehow I don't think that's what Jefferson, Franklin, Adams, Hamilton, et alia had in mind. In fact, I'd say that the prohibitive fees alone constitute a violation of the Second Amendment.
    Letting Alabama sheriffs ration carry rights on a "may-issue" basis would also be a violation, IMHO.

    Quote Originally Posted by BamaBoy View Post
    c45man: Yes, the Sullivan Law applies only in New York City. In fact, when I was a kid, you would read about the Sullivan Law more in connection with knives. Remember that in "West Side Story," the (highly romanticized) gangs carried knives, not guns. That was representative of the time (1961); the gangs of today are more technologically advanced.

    Note that gun-hating New York Senator Charles Schumer has a CCW permit, as do a bunch of celebrities, rich people, anti-gun newspaper editors, and people with political connections. Is that "equal protection of the laws"?
    Don't forget about Diane Feinstein, she has one of those rare San Francisco CCW permits. Those are probably as rare as the talking potatoes once seen on Rice-A-Roni comertials.

  10. Quote Originally Posted by BamaBoy View Post
    c45man: Yes, the Sullivan Law applies only in New York City.
    False. The Sullivan Law is the New York STATE pistol permit system.

    Sullivan Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    The Sullivan Act, also known as the Sullivan Law, is a controversial gun control law in New York State. Upon first passage, the Sullivan Act required licenses for New Yorkers to possess firearms small enough to be concealed. Possession of such firearms without a license was a misdemeanor, carrying them was a felony. The possession or carrying of weapons such as brass knuckles, sandbags, blackjacks, bludgeons or bombs was a felony, as was possessing or carrying a dagger, "dangerous knife" or razor "with intent to use the same unlawfully". Named for its primary legislative sponsor, state senator Timothy Sullivan, a notoriously corrupt Tammany Hall politician, it dates to 1911, and is still in force, making it one of the older existing gun control laws in the United States.
    U.S. Navy Policy on Family Members Serving Together, Sole Survivor Policy

    The Sullivan Law of 29 May 1911 is a New York State Law dealing with firearms.
    http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/20...n-control-law/
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

  11. #60
    False. The Sullivan Law is the New York STATE pistol permit system.

    Thanks for the correction, Navy. I was thinking of the fact that New York City has its own CCW policies, which differ from those of NY State generally. Getting a CCW permit in some parts of the state is not particularly difficult, while it is practically impossible in NYC. Also, New York might be the only state where a permit is good everywhere except in one city. Philadelphia and Omaha, for example, tried to prohibit carry by people with permits but were shot down by the state government.

    As for the Johnny-one-note troll who posted before you, I am no longer feeding him.

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