Ok, Odd Question, Need some answers.
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Thread: Ok, Odd Question, Need some answers.

  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Flint, Michigan

    Post Ok, Odd Question, Need some answers.

    'Ok, so a friend of mine in the Army National Guard, basically quit. He apparently didnt "feel it" anymore. He quit showing up to drill. He has a valid Michigan CPL at the moment. He started wondering apparently and asked me, "do you think I can continue renewing my CPL after it expires with a General Discharge, or Other than Honorable Discharge?" I didnt know how to answer the question.
    I understand his reasons for basically quitting. Hes been in for 3 years, no deployments, hes starting a family, and making decent money at his job. Him not "feeling it" in my opinion (as I am as well a Soldier) is a good reason for him to basically quit.
    I personally wouldnt want someone in who just doesnt care anymore to train along side me, or fight with me, Id feel theyre not giving it 100% when it matters most, or isnt paying attention.
    But question is, can he still renew his CPL or even continue to purchase firearms with those discharges? I know its National Guard, but still a good question, I didnt know how to answer him, I just told him I wasnt sure and went about our day.
    Anyone here have knowledge on this?
    Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you, Jesus Christ and the American Soldier....One died for your soul; the other for your freedom.

  3. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Colorado Rocky Mountain High
    "Not feeling it" is isn't a good reason to quit ( BTW the correct term for that is desertion). Your friend signed a contract he needs to fulfill his obligation.

    To answer your question I'm going to guess it's going to cause him problems ( and it should) and when it does he won't have any way to go back and fix it.
    See, it's mumbo jumbo like that and skinny little lizards like you thinking they the last dragon that gives Kung Fu a bad name.
    http://www.gunrightsmedia.com/ Internet forum dedicated to second amendment

  4. #3
    Tell your freind to man up and complete his term of service. The price is much higer then percieved. It is possiable that he will get a dishonorable discharge and that means no right to own a firearm under federal law He better find a way to fix it. I personaly do not hire anyone with a less then HONORABLE discharge.

    US Military discharge - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    The Only Easy Day Was Yesterday

  5. I agree, desertion is a much more serious offense than your friend believes. Article 85 of the UCMJ, Desertion lists the maximum punishment as

    Maximum punishment.

    (1) Completed or attempted desertion with intent to avoid hazardous duty or to shirk important service. Dishonorable discharge, forfeiture of all pay and allowances, and confinement for 5 years.

    (2) Other cases of completed or attempted desertion.

    (a) Terminated by apprehension. Dishonorable discharge, forfeiture of all pay and allowances, and confinement for 3 years.

    (b) Terminated otherwise. Dishonorable discharge, forfeiture of all pay and allowances, and confinement for 2 years.

    (3) In time of war. Death or such other punishment as a court-martial may direct.
    Article 85—Desertion

    My advice, have your friend go back with his tail between his legs, plead for nonjudicial punishment (Article 15) and hope that he does not get confinement, or a dishonorable or less than honorable discharge.

  6. #5
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Las Vegas, Nevada
    After returning from Vietnam, I continued to fly helicopters with the Ohio National Guard for thirteen years...quitting when my eyes could no longer make the grade in flight physicals. During that time, I saw many who "didn't feel it anymore"...yadda, yadda, yadda.

    Tell your deserter friend that he's dooming his life if he decides that he'll no longer honor his contract. Things get put in military records that will haunt him forever. A commitment to service is not like working at Burger King.

  7. #6
    When a grown man signs a contract he fulfills his part of the bargain. Desertion for lack of interest is an insult and your friends has character issues far more critical than a concealed carry permit.

  8. #7
    "Not feeling it" is not a valid reason to fail to uphold your word. He raised his hand and swore to protect and defend the Constitution along with everyone else. My view is he has no honor and would deserve any negative actions that came his way.

    If he is worried about how it would impact his CPL renewal he needs to man up and fulfill his obligation. Maybe he should review the Army values. A general discharge I don't think would cause any problems but in cases like this I've always been an advocate of a less that honorable designation.
    "Let us speak courteously, deal fairly, and keep ourselves armed and ready."
    Teddy Roosevelt May 13, 1903

  9. Thumbs down A few years of service he doesn't "feel" or a life as a deserter?

    When you apply for a job the only thing most places look at for military service is when, how long and how you were discharged. While I’d say a decent number of people wouldn’t know the difference between general and honorable discharge, and in that case it wouldn’t be a hindrance for getting a job with a company that doesn’t do much research on applicants. For the people that know the difference or do a little research on applicants, he’s going to have a hard time getting a “good” job. Not to mention if he gets a less than honorable or dishonorable discharge. Anyone is going to know what they are right away. So the only advice your buddy should get is go back and beg not to get kicked out for desertion. Because it’s a few more years to fulfill his oath versus a life long record of desertion because he “just didn’t feel it”.

    And while my opinion is irrelevant I think they should hand out dishonorable for this more often than they do.

    Also I worked in a duty position where one of our duties was to relay info to what we call the trash collectors (I think that was just what the 10 of us called them). But the whole job of this group of a dozen or so soldier was to go where ever needed to escort deserters that had been picked up by the police back to Fort Campbell. They literally fly all over the world. Mostly inside the US of course but they would go anywhere that would honor a US warrant. The Army no longer tries to track you down. A warrant is placed for you and they just wait until you get caught for something small (like speeding). Some of these guys ran off 5, 6, 7, and in one case 15 years before. The warrant just stays out for you until you get caught. So if he doesn't go back to at least get kicked out, renewing a driver’s license, CPL, or anything through the government isn’t going to work.
    Last edited by Fisck; 05-23-2011 at 12:06 PM. Reason: bad gramar

  10. #9
    Just another example of the "anything goes" attitude fostered through "modern" child rearing practices and the general unpreparedness of many young adults to shoulder the responsibilities of being an adult.

    Another, "It's all about ME!" citizen. Like we don't already have enough.

    Fanatics of any sort are dangerous! -GG-
    Which part of "... shall NOT be infringed..." confuses you?
    Well now, aren't WE a pair, Raggedy Man? (Thunderdome)

  11. As someone who has served for nearly 17 years in uniform, your freind's conduct is disgraceful. Worse than that, it is dishonorable.

    From a legal perspective, it is desertion but it could be considerably worse. Should he or his unit be activated you could add missing movement onto that charge as well. This by itself would be easier to prove. As proving desertion can be tricky since you must prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the accused had no intent to return. This offense would add 2 years to the sentence and by itself would obviously count as a felony conviction (as would desertion).

    A Dishonorable Discharge results in the forfieture of your firearms rights, can result in loss of voting rights and WILL have a considerably negative effect on your freinds employment prospects. In short, take the article 15. An article 15 conviction would likely result in at least a general discharge or possibly an Other than Honorable. Both of which are consideable improvements from either a Dishonorable or Bad Conduct discharge. Your friend needs to take a long hard look at the consequences of his actions. There is considerably more at risk than just his CPL.

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