Pima County, Arizona SWAT Team Shoots Iraqi Veteran 60 Times!! - Page 4
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Thread: Pima County, Arizona SWAT Team Shoots Iraqi Veteran 60 Times!!

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by shooter View Post
    Do you want more cops killed?
    Do you want more citizens killed?

    Unlike Egypt, we don't draft police. If they think the job is so dangerous that they can't do it without recklessly endangering citizens, they need to find other employment.

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  3. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Deanimator View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by shooter View Post
    Do you want more cops killed?
    Do you want more citizens killed?

    Unlike Egypt, we don't draft police. If they think the job is so dangerous that they can't do it without recklessly endangering citizens, they need to find other employment.
    . Totally agree with deanimator

  4. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by scottbland247 View Post
    . Totally agree with deanimator
    It seems that every day I see more and more extreme expressions of contempt for the LAC by cops and their supporters.

    To some cops it seems that this is Nanking, they're the Japanese and we're the Chinese.

  5. Quote Originally Posted by shooter View Post
    So, police shouldn't take precautions in case of the potential and have reasonable belief?

    Come on...that's just dumb. To do otherwise would put more cops at risk of serious bodily harm or death. Do you want more cops killed?

    Besides, in this case, the raid was not a mistake.

    Lastly, courts have held that even if raids are mistakes, but were conducted "in good faith" based on a totality of circumstances behind the raid, they are still legal.
    No, I think you mistake my meaning. I said that SWAT team no-knock raids should be much more restricted. Of course there is risk. There is risk at a traffic stop, or a domestic violence call, but that doesn't mean the cops should use SWAT teams for those.

    I have no problem with reasonable precautions (and assume these no-knock SWAT raids are what you mean by proper precautions), but think that a lot of this is overkill, and suggest people rethink what is really necessary. For example, the abuses noted in these instances could perhaps have been avoided with suggestions given by others -- arresting the guy in less threatening circumstances, executing a warrant when he was not at home, and so forth.

    In short, I am not against police using appropriate force; I just question whether some revaluation could be made of what constitutes appropriate force, so as to prevent tragic mistakes. And forcing accountability with severe penalties for dumb mistakes would do a lot in preventing dumb mistakes -- I can think of no valid excuse for getting a wrong address.

  6. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by joemendoza View Post
    In short, I am not against police using appropriate force; I just question whether some revaluation could be made of what constitutes appropriate force, so as to prevent tragic mistakes.
    The problem is that there's an element in law enforcement that believes that whatever force police use is BY DEFINITION appropriate. And it doesn't matter whether they use it on the right person or at the right place. As long as THEY are unharmed, NOTHING else matters. Further, they will in every case blame the victim for his own wounding or murder.

    Take the example of Kathryn Johnston in Atlanta. She was murdered in an illegal home invasion by the Atlanta PD, based on a search warrant illegally obtained through knowing perjury. After the whole thing blew up in their faces, the cops who committed the murder tried to cover their tracks by planting drugs in the victim's home AND by suborning perjury from a confidential informant.

    While all of this was going on, we were assured ABSOLUTELY by cops and their supporters that Johnston was 100% guilty and DESERVED to die. Unfortunately for them, the informant literally dove from a moving police car and ran to the FBI. Two of the murderers confessed to their crimes, and a third was convicted. The three went to prison on ludicrously lenient sentences.

    Strangely, to this day, I've NEVER seen a SINGLE defender of this murder by the Atlanta PD admit, either that they were wrong or that what was done was wrong.

  7. #36
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    If you kick my door in you will be in the gunfight of your live, trip wires and anything else in my house including the dogs you will be fired on with serious weapons while calling 911, till I am out of rounds. Have a nice day.

  8. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deanimator View Post
    The problem is that there's an element in law enforcement that believes that whatever force police use is BY DEFINITION appropriate. And it doesn't matter whether they use it on the right person or at the right place. As long as THEY are unharmed, NOTHING else matters. Further, they will in every case blame the victim for his own wounding or murder.

    Take the example of Kathryn Johnston in Atlanta. She was murdered in an illegal home invasion by the Atlanta PD, based on a search warrant illegally obtained through knowing perjury. After the whole thing blew up in their faces, the cops who committed the murder tried to cover their tracks by planting drugs in the victim's home AND by suborning perjury from a confidential informant.

    While all of this was going on, we were assured ABSOLUTELY by cops and their supporters that Johnston was 100% guilty and DESERVED to die. Unfortunately for them, the informant literally dove from a moving police car and ran to the FBI. Two of the murderers confessed to their crimes, and a third was convicted. The three went to prison on ludicrously lenient sentences.

    Strangely, to this day, I've NEVER seen a SINGLE defender of this murder by the Atlanta PD admit, either that they were wrong or that what was done was wrong.
    And when the victims successfully sue the police or a settlement is reached it is usually tied with strings that the police do not admit any fault or wrong doing. Though there have been rare cases where police do admit fault as in the Kathryn Johnston raid this is the exception rather than the rule. If a CCW person makes a mistake they are are usually roasted alive by the liberals and the media but if the police or swat teams make a mistake it is usually justified and accepted as collateral damage. This is when I raise the BS flag.

    This Marine had not been convicted of anything and in my opinion was executed for doing nothing wrong than at that moment defending his family. They would have found my body with three empty 30 rd magazines laying on the floor. There was so much confusion going on they didn't even know if he had fired at them. If he was truly under surveillance and was such a high risk/dangerous person, why wasn't he pulled over on his way to or home from work? Surely a 20 month investigation would have revealed is work schedule along with the fact his wife and two kids that lived with him. This is just sloppy any way you spin it. Maybe I am excepting to much from our public servants.

    Bottom line is this: If you carry a badge and are responsible for enforcing the laws, protecting the public and most importantly the Constitution, do it with pride, common sense and above all respect for the people that you serve. If you do I will be there to support you all the way. If not then you will reap what you sowed.
    Suppose you were an idiot, and suppose you were a member of Congress;
    but I repeat myself.
    Mark Twain

  9. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigSlick View Post
    And when the victims successfully sue the police or a settlement is reached it is usually tied with strings that the police do not admit any fault or wrong doing. Though there have been rare cases where police do admit fault as in the Kathryn Johnston raid this is the exception rather than the rule.
    Even more disturbing is the inevitable invocation of the "ghetto lottery" by police and their supporters when victims seek redress in the civil courts. Apparently, people are just sitting around waiting to be abused, maimed or murdered by police so that their SURVIVORS can collect a payout.

    Recently the owner of a popular Chicago police blog referred to a civil suit against officers, the department and the city as "opportunistic". What was the cause of action of the suit? During its reign of terror, the "SOS" home invasion ring operating INSIDE the Chicago PD, kidnapped a minor child and threatened him with violence to obtain information about a neighbor. Apparently, the child (now an adult) and his parents should have been GRATEFUL to have a child kidnapped and threatened by a crew of burglars.

    Almost without fail, police and their supporters respond, "What would you do if you called the police and nobody came?":
    1. That's EXACTLY what happened in Cleveland in 1986 when I first moved to Ohio. A Black woman and her small children were trapped in her home by a mob of drunken Whites who pelted the house with rocks, bottles and fireworks. Someone had already tried to burn the house down. She REPEATEDLY called police who reported nothing untoward. She finally gave up and called a friend. He drove to the house and finding a large mob, shotgunned them from behind. Police then arrested HIM. His attorney introduced into evidence 911 tapes showing police and dispatchers JOKING about the woman and her children's peril. The friend walked.
    2. If when they arrive, police kidnap my child or loot my home, I'd rather they NEVER came.

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