You Knew The Conditions Of Employment When You Took The Job - Page 7
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Thread: You Knew The Conditions Of Employment When You Took The Job

  1. #61
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
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    2,388
    Not sure why these thread replies now encompass anything to do with permits or CC, but bottom line stll is that an employer can place restrictions on what he considers to be his code of conduct for his employees. Same can be said for any business that does the same for its customers. Don't like it, don't work there or don't do business there--end of story. Personally, as far as permits are concerned, IMO, the procedure for obtaining same should show some proficiency with and knowledge of handling and discharging a firearm--current CC "exams", IMO and in too many cases, are open to too many inconsistencies and failure to even teach basics by so-called instructors who "wink and nod" at obvious failures and are only concerned about their fee and not the ability of the individual to walk away with some sort of proficiency.

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  3. #62
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
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    OHIO
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimPage View Post
    ...and you could revel in righteousness along with your cell mate. Get real, man.

    I AM the one that is "REAL" here dude.... You are the one in the fantasy, boot-licking world of follow ALL LAWS just because some idiots thought it was a good idea to pass them, and didnt give a rip that they were UNCONSTITUTIONAL. Enjoy your chains, may they rest lightly....

    Myself, I am a FREE man.

  4. #63
    Join Date
    May 2011
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    Oregon City, Oregon, United States
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    65

    Nelson Mandela was real too

    Most people on this forum believe that you shouldn't need a permit to carry however in most jurisdictions you do. That is the current reality and it will remain so until the SCOTUS rules on the issue

    However you do have the ability to violate what you believe to.be unjust laws, however if caught you WILL be prosecuted. You can take on the role of martyr to the cause if you so choose and perhaps your case will stand with the Heller or McDonald decision or perhaps you'll just spend some time in jail and be considered a felon. That's the risk you're taking

    It's a little like the signors of the declaration of independence. They were violating existing British law (which they deemed unjust) and knew full well that if they won they would have a new country but if they lost they would all hang for treason

  5. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by marcparis View Post
    Most people on this forum believe that you shouldn't need a permit to carry however in most jurisdictions you do. That is the current reality and it will remain so until the SCOTUS rules on the issue

    However you do have the ability to violate what you believe to.be unjust laws, however if caught you WILL be prosecuted. You can take on the role of martyr to the cause if you so choose and perhaps your case will stand with the Heller or McDonald decision or perhaps you'll just spend some time in jail and be considered a felon. That's the risk you're taking

    It's a little like the signors of the declaration of independence. They were violating existing British law (which they deemed unjust) and knew full well that if they won they would have a new country but if they lost they would all hang for treason

    Good answer/post.... Thank you..

    However,

    As far as myself, and I know there are others out there (some even on this forum) have decided that when it comes to CERTAIN things, allowing (abiding by/cooperating with) an unlawful arrest/confiscation is not an option.... 'jus sayin....

  6. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Treo View Post
    Wyoming was also the first state to elect a woman (Esther Hobart Morris 1870) to public office
    Thanks for that tidbit.

  7. #66
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Oklahoma, for now
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    364
    It's threads like this that embarrass me when people ask me about gun ownership. There are a lot of uninformed people here when it comes to private property rights, and a lot who are far from consistent when it comes to matters of ethics and law.

    Please don’t ever forget that when you say things like "Ethical? Who cares? I'm going to whatever I want!" that you're representing all 90-odd million gun owners, and you're doing a poor job of it.

    And don't think that this forum is private. Nothing on the net is, and I guarantee there are anti-gun people here laughing at you and gathering dodder for their next move.

  8. #67

    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by Guper View Post
    My only problem is often the company policies have become so cookie cutter that essentially there are very few if any jobs that don't have a clause about guns. Even worse is that I think that this standard came not from the companies themselves but quite possibly from liability/insurance type reasons so that they wouldn't get sued or have to pay more in insurance. Now if we passed a law that said that companies had no say in that specific matter then that would also benefit them because they could no longer be held liable because they don't have the company doesn't have a choice in the matter.
    Almost everything in business is done with risk analysis and actuarial tables. While most of us believe that the "No carry at work" clause is either an owner's personal preference or corporate boilerplate, the fact remains that it is cheaper for insurance companies to pay off six or seven families of dead employees from a workplace shooting than to handle one suit from a wounded employee due to accidental discharge. Most rules are about liability and money and has nothing to do with rights, desires or safety. Accountants run the company and Insurance companies dictate the rules: When in doubt, follow the money.

    Based on this theory, I approached an employer AFTER my 90-day probation with my insurance policy, including a $2 million umbrella, contact info for my attorney, shooting training certification, and two clear psych profiles. He allowed me to carry as long as no other employee found out or complained about it.

    Sometimes it's about finding the real source of the problem and addressing it. However, life is always a balancing act. Many people have given up jobs, lives and even left their countries for lives elsewhere when their current situation didn't agree with their ideals, morals and expectations. Before doing that, there must be a way, like these forums, for like-minded employees and employers to find each other. I would think a pro-gun employer would love to have a workplace that promoted 2nd Amendment freedom and hire like-minded people that were qualified to do the work. There might even be a website idea in there for someone...

  9. #68
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Minnesota
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    29
    My job won't let me carry, but I still do. Concealed means concealed. I can get another Job. Another life is harder to come by...

  10. Quote Originally Posted by PHATSPEED7X:213567
    My job won't let me carry, but I still do. Concealed means concealed. I can get another Job. Another life is harder to come by...


    Amen

  11. #70
    Join Date
    May 2011
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    Oregon City, Oregon, United States
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    Quote Originally Posted by TekGreg View Post
    Almost everything in business is done with risk analysis and actuarial tables. While most of us believe that the "No carry at work" clause is either an owner's personal preference or corporate boilerplate, the fact remains that it is cheaper for insurance companies to pay off six or seven families of dead employees from a workplace shooting than to handle one suit from a wounded employee due to accidental discharge. Most rules are about liability and money and has nothing to do with rights, desires or safety. Accountants run the company and Insurance companies dictate the rules: When in doubt, follow the money.

    Based on this theory, I approached an employer AFTER my 90-day probation with my insurance policy, including a $2 million umbrella, contact info for my attorney, shooting training certification, and two clear psych profiles. He allowed me to carry as long as no other employee found out or complained about it.

    Sometimes it's about finding the real source of the problem and addressing it. However, life is always a balancing act. Many people have given up jobs, lives and even left their countries for lives elsewhere when their current situation didn't agree with their ideals, morals and expectations. Before doing that, there must be a way, like these forums, for like-minded employees and employers to find each other. I would think a pro-gun employer would love to have a workplace that promoted 2nd Amendment freedom and hire like-minded people that were qualified to do the work. There might even be a website idea in there for someone...
    I'd like to see states pass laws that shield employers from liability for firearm related issues when licensed CCW holders carry on the job. As you point out an employer might not personally object to having someone carry on the job if there wasn't major financial risk associated with it (insurance premiums, lawsuits etc). By removing the employer liability for it you'd eliminate the financial obstacle to carrying on the job. The law could have a requirement that employees have attended basic handgun training like the NRA Basic pistol course. That would placate some of the objections you might get in constitutional carry states where anti gunners would state "any untrained bozo could come in with a gun" (we all know the reality though - any untrained bozo could always come in with a gun regardless of laws or jurisdiction - looking at you Illinois). Arizona has tended to be a pretty forward thinking state where handgun laws are concerned - how about it Arizona?

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