When is it brandishing and when is it defense? - Page 10
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Thread: When is it brandishing and when is it defense?

  1. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by alduane View Post
    The only problem I have with this statement is; if you pull your gun because your life is in danger and the bad guy drops his weapon because you've pointed your gun at him, are you still obligated to pull the trigger since you've pointed your gun at him? The last part about pulling the trigger when you have no other options makes sense.
    Think about it this way: Keep your gun in your holster until your only option to stay alive is to shoot to stop the threat. If you can scare somebody away in the half second it takes between drawing and firing, then you probably were not justified at all because they must not have been that much of a threat if they could be stopped just like that. Your gun is for stopping threats that will stop at nothing but a bullet.

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  3. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deserteagle View Post
    Think about it this way: Keep your gun in your holster until your only option to stay alive is to shoot to stop the threat. If you can scare somebody away in the half second it takes between drawing and firing, then you probably were not justified at all because they must not have been that much of a threat if they could be stopped just like that. Your gun is for stopping threats that will stop at nothing but a bullet.

    More bullcrap, from the master, no less......

    How do YOU know why a criminal decides not to risk getting shot once he sees a firearm?

    How in the F**K do you DARE to tell someone who is in danger and in their mind decides it is time to pull their firearm for self defense that they now HAVE TO FIRE IT regardless if the threat has stopped once it is pulled????

    Are you now wanting us to believe that you can tell what a criminal/attacker is thinking even though you have never met them? That the perp really wasnt going to hurt them if they turn and run at the sight of a gun?

    How about those THOUSANDS of time a year (or is it millions?) that firearms are used in self defense and no shots are fired? Are you trying to convince all of us here that in every single one of those instances that the person with the firearms is now the one in the wrong because they didnt fire it?

    Your ignorance is truly amazing.... and you keep insisting on proving it time and time again for all to see....

  4. #93
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    Angry Aww geez! Would you two play nice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Axeanda45 View Post
    More bullcrap, from the master, no less......

    How do YOU know why a criminal decides not to risk getting shot once he sees a firearm?

    How in the F**K do you DARE to tell someone who is in danger and in their mind decides it is time to pull their firearm for self defense that they now HAVE TO FIRE IT regardless if the threat has stopped once it is pulled????

    Are you now wanting us to believe that you can tell what a criminal/attacker is thinking even though you have never met them? That the perp really wasnt going to hurt them if they turn and run at the sight of a gun?

    How about those THOUSANDS of time a year (or is it millions?) that firearms are used in self defense and no shots are fired? Are you trying to convince all of us here that in every single one of those instances that the person with the firearms is now the one in the wrong because they didnt fire it?

    Your ignorance is truly amazing.... and you keep insisting on proving it time and time again for all to see....
    Yo! Axe! Desert! You both have valid arguments for your individual homes and personalities. How about letting it go at that?

    According to your profiles, Desert, you live in Colorado and Axe you live in Ohio. Do you think there could be a slight chance that the laws might be a bit different between those states and therefore might shape the operational opinions the two of you have regarding the same subject?

    The OP was not meant to start a personal war between anyone. I was asking for opinions and I got them. We are all big boys and girls here and regardless of what someone sitting in front of glowing magic screen tries to convince us of, we're all going to do what we're going to do.

    Shouting back and forth doesn't press either of you positions, so all this pi$$ing back and forth only ruins the discussion for everyone else. And it makes the rest of us want to ignore what you may have to say on future posts.

    Everyone march off to the corner and chill! Or NO cookies for either of you!
    Last edited by walt629; 10-24-2011 at 09:07 PM. Reason: spelling
    To not stand against injustice is to stand for it.
    Don't confuse my personality and my attitude.
    My personality is who I am, my attitude depends on who you are.

  5. #94
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    Sorry walt....


    I just cannot be silent when such bull is put forth...

    And no, where I am NOR the "LAW" has ANYTHING to do with how I choose to defend myself, period....

    If you feel your life is in danger and you need to unholster, DO IT... If the danger ends BEFORE you fire the weapon, DONT FIRE IT! How can that be the wrong thing to do in any sane persons mind? To argue otherwise is absolutely insane!

    Yet he keeps at it...... Well, in this matter I WILL NOT BE SILENT, EVER! His advice is 100% wrong and cannot be allowed to go out without rebuttal...


    *goes to corner muttering something about not getting a cookie*

    BTW, I can see NO valid points ANYWHERE in what desert is spouting.... the "must fire if drawn" junk is so extremely overpowering that nothing else he writes can even be remotely believed as truth.

  6. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by walt629 View Post
    Yo! Axe! Desert! You both have valid arguments for your individual homes and personalities. How about letting it go at that?

    According to your profiles, Desert, you live in Colorado and Axe you live in Ohio. Do you think there could be a slight chance that the laws might be a bit different between those states and therefore might shape the operational opinions the two of you have regarding the same subject?

    The OP was not meant to start a personal war between anyone. I was asking for opinions and I got them. We are all big boys and girls here and regardless of what someone sitting in front of glowing magic screen tries to convince us of, we're all going to do what we're going to do.

    Shouting back and forth doesn't press either of you positions, so all this pi$$ing back and forth only ruins the discussion for everyone else. And it makes the rest of us want to ignore what you may have to say on future posts.

    Everyone march off to the corner and chill! Or NO cookies for either of you!
    If you look at all the posts, its just him and his big anger problem, but Im doing my best to not read his long rants just as everyone else should too. Thanks for attempting to calm him down but its not going to work, so thats why I am using the ignore button now.

  7. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deserteagle View Post
    If you look at all the posts, its just him and his big anger problem, but Im doing my best to not read his long rants just as everyone else should too. Thanks for attempting to calm him down but its not going to work, so thats why I am using the ignore button now.
    Hmmmm.... I have an anger problem? Where? Pointing out lies and bad advice is anger? Pointing out stupid things that may get someone up on murder charges if they follow it is anger? So be it, I dont post to try and win a popularity contest.... I post to advance the truth...

    My way of writing may very well come across as angry, but that doesnt mean it is meant that way....I just dont try to skirt around the issues, no need to in my eyes. A spade is a spade.... why call it anything else?

    Would you try to be nice to someone who was telling your son or daughter that Heroin is good for them?

    Why do I have to try to be "nice" to someone who is telling others who may not yet know what is right in self-defense issues that murder is ok?

  8. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Axeanda45 View Post
    OMG... I missed this part in my prior post.... Wow, where to start... This is SOOOOO wrong on so many levels, it is outright fantasy, and you call yourself an INSTRUCTOR?????????

    We have (well, it is so watered down to be nearly non-existent, but the writing is still there) the 2nd Amendment Right to be armed... Please, mr enlightened Instructor, the keeper of all knowledge, WHERE in the Constitution or BOR it says we have a "Right" to not be afraid??????

    My goodness, if the cops charged you like you said they would , You would have a MAJOR lawsuit and make lots of money if you got a good lawyer......
    I stand by what I said about Massachusetts, and I take offense at your remarks. You live in Ohio. You obviously have no idea what the political and legal climate is like up here in New England.

    Let me assure you this is not "outright fantasy." The second amendment has been trampled and gutted in so many ways, for so many years, by Democrat-dominated state and local governments, that it boggles the mind. You have to have a permit to even OWN firearms. The permit system is "may issue," and the laws are written so ambiguously that the local government can pull your card for just about ANY reason. And when that happens, not only can you no longer carry - YOU ARE FORCED TO SELL, STORE, OR OTHERWISE GET YOUR FIREARMS OUT OF YOUR HOME.

    So yes, DESPITE THAT THERE ARE NO LAWS PROHIBITING OPEN CARRY OF FIREARMS...I could be arrested for doing so. And even if the charges were dropped...local government could decide that I "acted irresponsibly" and pull my card.

    So yeah, we're in the middle of a major legislative fight up here. GOAL (Gun Owners' Action League) is working on two fronts - trying to get "band aid" type legislation passed to fix the most egregious of the bad laws; and trying to get a full re-write passed, to bring the legislation in line with what we refer to as the "free states."

    So, maybe before you shoot your mouth off and call "bullcrap" one more time, you should have a look at these websites:

    Gun Owners' Action League - GOAL.org - "Protecting Your Freedom Begins Here"

    www.massgunreform.com
    S&W M&P 45; Ruger GP100 .357 Magnum; Charter Arms .38 Undercover
    http://www.usacarry.com/forums/members/phillip-gain-albums-phil-s-photos-picture3828-reciprocity-map-29jun11.JPG

  9. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phillip Gain View Post
    I stand by what I said about Massachusetts, and I take offense at your remarks. You live in Ohio. You obviously have no idea what the political and legal climate is like up here in New England.

    Let me assure you this is not "outright fantasy." The second amendment has been trampled and gutted in so many ways, for so many years, by Democrat-dominated state and local governments, that it boggles the mind. You have to have a permit to even OWN firearms. The permit system is "may issue," and the laws are written so ambiguously that the local government can pull your card for just about ANY reason. And when that happens, not only can you no longer carry - YOU ARE FORCED TO SELL, STORE, OR OTHERWISE GET YOUR FIREARMS OUT OF YOUR HOME.

    So yes, DESPITE THAT THERE ARE NO LAWS PROHIBITING OPEN CARRY OF FIREARMS...I could be arrested for doing so. And even if the charges were dropped...local government could decide that I "acted irresponsibly" and pull my card.

    So yeah, we're in the middle of a major legislative fight up here. GOAL (Gun Owners' Action League) is working on two fronts - trying to get "band aid" type legislation passed to fix the most egregious of the bad laws; and trying to get a full re-write passed, to bring the legislation in line with what we refer to as the "free states."

    So, maybe before you shoot your mouth off and call "bullcrap" one more time, you should have a look at these websites:

    Gun Owners' Action League - GOAL.org - "Protecting Your Freedom Begins Here"

    www.massgunreform.com
    'TOUCHE....

    Thank you for explaining further (you might get a clue here desert) and supporting your side/argument intelligently..

    You would still have many grounds for suing the pants off them if they did arrest you on these false charges... Might actually help the cause if some brave souls decided it was time to challenge them....

    But Phillip, are you ever going to answer the part about where it is in the Constitution that we have the right to NOT be afraid? Inquiring minds want to know....

  10. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by Axeanda45 View Post
    Again, this is 100% bullcrap....

    People have died from being hit with a fist, so by your false statement, we would have to be charged with "introducing deadly force" for balling up our fist...

    Deadly force is introduced ONLY WHEN a firearm has been discharged, (even if the bullet doesnt hit anyone) NOT the moment it comes out of a holster........
    Again - I stand by what I said. You can split hairs all you want about what constitutes deadly force. But the fact is, when you bring your gun into the equation, the encounter becomes a "deadly force encounter."

    Being belligerent and mouthy doesn't make you right. Just belligerent and mouthy.
    S&W M&P 45; Ruger GP100 .357 Magnum; Charter Arms .38 Undercover
    http://www.usacarry.com/forums/members/phillip-gain-albums-phil-s-photos-picture3828-reciprocity-map-29jun11.JPG

  11. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by Axeanda45 View Post
    But Phillip, are you ever going to answer the part about where in the Constitution we have the right to NOT be afraid? Inquiring minds want to know....
    No, I am not going to answer it. Because it is a rhetorical question, asked by a belligerent mouthy person, who will not be satisfied with whatever answer I give.

    I decline to further engage you in this discussion.
    S&W M&P 45; Ruger GP100 .357 Magnum; Charter Arms .38 Undercover
    http://www.usacarry.com/forums/members/phillip-gain-albums-phil-s-photos-picture3828-reciprocity-map-29jun11.JPG

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