When is it brandishing and when is it defense? - Page 13
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Thread: When is it brandishing and when is it defense?

  1. Quote Originally Posted by jg1967 View Post
    1,700 approvals is not exactly a lot, is it? It's nice for the few people that can actually get a permit that there are few restrictions, I suppose.
    Depends entirely upon the number of applications. If there are 1,700 applications, than 1,700 approvals would be 100% rate of approval. The number of permits approved, by itself, means absolutely nothing.
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

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  3. #122
    Exactly why "Permit Laws" that say SHALL issue are much preferred to MAY issue. Takes all the cantankerousness out of local LEOs and DAs.

    GG
    Fanatics of any sort are dangerous! -GG-
    Which part of "... shall NOT be infringed..." confuses you?
    Well now, aren't WE a pair, Raggedy Man? (Thunderdome)

  4. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by Grognard Gunny View Post
    Exactly why "Permit Laws" that say SHALL issue are much preferred to MAY issue. Takes all the cantankerousness out of local LEOs and DAs.

    GG
    AMEN!
    (Now please come up here and convince the Massachusetts state legislature.)
    S&W M&P 45; Ruger GP100 .357 Magnum; Charter Arms .38 Undercover
    http://www.usacarry.com/forums/members/phillip-gain-albums-phil-s-photos-picture3828-reciprocity-map-29jun11.JPG

  5. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grognard Gunny View Post
    Exactly why "Permit Laws" that say SHALL issue are much preferred to MAY issue. Takes all the cantankerousness out of local LEOs and DAs.

    GG
    All "Shall-isue" states are really "may-issue." As long as there's a provision in the law that allows denial of a permit based on a person's past history, ie; criminal or psychiatric, the state may deny the permit. In addition, many of these states require permit renewals and prohibit the carry of a gun in a bar, restuarant, public transportation, chrches, banks, hospital, etc. As liberal as NYS has become, none of these places are prohibited. So what good is a shall-issue state when you can be killed eating your dinner in the local pub? Remember the Luby's massacre in TX?
    GOD, GUNS and GUITARS

  6. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by BC1 View Post
    That's 1,700 approvals and one denial by ME alone in three counties! In NY everyone gets a permit unless there is a glaring reason to deny. My most recent approval was a guy with two counts of assault and one for aggravated harrassment. Both charges wre ACD'd so he gets his permit. Stop drinking the cool-aid. Everyone gets on this NY bandwagon without any first-hand experience/knowledge of the state. Everyone says it so it must be true? Crapola! The denial exists in every state, even shall-issue states.
    That is very interesting. I am completely open to facts that may change my opinion so I am glad I ran into you on this post. It could be interesting for the rest of us if you maybe made a separate thread with some summarized information on NY misconceptions.

  7. #126
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    Hey BC1 and jg: One important thing to remember about NY is that there are two NYs. NYC is a bastion of incredible social idiocy and, with a mayor who is a little schmoe with a Napolean complex, he now runs the city for life and is nothing but a two bit dictator. From what I can gather he is sincere and competent in his job but he your typical liberal who is the only one who knows what is best for all the citizens of the city--dangerous and disgusting, IMO. The State of NY is a different story--travel around and and leave NYC and you are in a far different landscape physically and politically (except for pockets of the same crapola that exist in NYC). They now have a liberal governor who is a classic case of everything wrong with politics in this country ( groomed for the job by his daddy and the liberal schmoes in DC) but, on the whole, much of the state contains populace who have a sense of what is right and I mean RIGHT. So to categorize the State of NY based on the usual news that centers on NYC, is mixing apples and oranges.

  8. #127
    In Florida, at least 2 different statutes come into play to answer this question. One is the Concealed Carry statute, which requires license holders to conceal their firearm except for brief and unintentional exposure of the weapon, for example if the wind blows your jacket open and the weapon becomes visibile for a moment. Another statute is the one governing the crime of brandishing a weapon, which says basically that if you don't have the right under the law to USE the weapon, you don't have the right to take it out and hold it in the open, in public. However, when enforcing both statutes, it ALWAYS comes down to what the investigating officer decides, about whether to move forward with charges or not, so you ALWAYS have the human element coming into play. There are several good video DVD's coming from www.ArmedResponseTraining.com which go into these subjects in greater detail. I bought one of their self-defense videos (Defensive Cane Fighting) and found it very informative about the legal issues of self defense. (By the way, a cane can be an excellent alternative to pulling out a gun, you can brandish a cane all you want, and you can carry a cane ANYWHERE!) One of their videos is "Responsible Use of Deadly Force" which addresses just these issues. Remember, any time you draw your weapon, you are facing the possibility of stiff fines, legal charges, and possible jail time. So, to be a responsible gun owner, it's important that you get your head wrapped around what the law requires and what it allows, and make that a part of your mental and physical training. I used to want to load up with pistol, extra mags, combat belt knife, ASP baton, and yawara sticks. But then I started checking with law enforcement officers, states attorneys, and reading the statues carefully. What I found out was that all that hardware was more likely to change my life for the worse than for the better, maybe putting me in prison for years or wiping out my financial future. What I've settled on since then is carrying my CC weapon and a spare mag, and either a cane or escrima stick in the open, while making it obvious that I don't need the cane in order to walk - that makes it a deterrent to would-be BGs. Too bad I can carry my weapon openly - that would REALLY be a deterrent! Preventing problems always beats having to solve them later.

  9. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by Phillip Gain View Post
    I'd prefer something simpler like "STOP!" or "BACK OFF!" or "YOU'RE SCARING ME!" It puts the aggressor on notice...but more importantly it provides a nice easy-to-remember quote for any witnesses in earshot.
    Absolutely start by shouting "STOP!" and if they hesitate I'd offer the rest of the statement. This is something that I learned from a personal protection DVD from American Rifleman. The instructor said that using similar wording helps protect you legally. He said if you have been able to call 911 before that point (usually in the case if a home invasion) to make the statement while on the phone so it is recorded.

    In a real life situation things will be completely different every time, but we train and practice to at least put us in the best position possible.

  10. banishing

    In the state of Florida there are several ways to look at this topic.
    A: you can't show you're firearm to intimidate or get the upper hand.
    B: if you're in your vehicle and the assailant tries to remove you from your car, poses a threat with a weapon outside your car; you're protected under the castle doctrine. You're able to meet force with force. Same as your place of employment or home. You do not need to retreat.
    C: if you get out of your car, place of employment, or home you're no longer protected under said "castle doctrine". However you're able to prevent a forcible felony if someone is in danger of death. ie: car jacking, kidnapping, hostage, and/or antagonist is using deadly force against someone unable to defend themselves. In other words you stand in their shoes. Hope this brief summary helps. Always know your own state laws. Again this is the state of florida's interpretation of the law.

  11. #130
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    Hey Dragon: There are many things besides a cane that you can brandish that can make a big difference. Not sure what limits there may be in FL law but I carry a can of bear spray when I am in a situation where I cannot CC (ie cannot carry into a restaurant that serves alcohol so when I come out at 10PM, I do not have my firearm--but I do have my bear spray). Shoots up to 30 ft, WILL stop a bear. In SC, there is a limit to those little lipstick size pepper sprays and the bear spray container is bigger than that--having said that I asked county prosecutor who, with some common sense, told me that they would rather have me put a perp down with the spray to live another day than to outright kill him with the alternate--a firearm. There is also the defense baton, which starts out as a little stick and opens to a hardened steel rod that will give a good hurt.

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