When is it brandishing and when is it defense? - Page 5
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Thread: When is it brandishing and when is it defense?

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deserteagle View Post
    Unfortunately, putting yourself at a higher state of readiness will also put you in prison once the bad guy runs away and calls the police saying a guy with a gun just threatened to kill him.
    That's why you call the police as well.
    (Insert random tough-guy quote here)
    "See my gun?? Aren't you impressed?" - Anonymous sheepdog
    The hardware is the same, but the software is vastly different.

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  3. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by trailboss:237957
    Its like a good samurai sword.
    If it comes out,it must draw blood before you put it back.
    Really. And they actually let you walk around and vote and produce offspring?

  4. #43
    Truthfully, there isnt enough info in the OP. What about, stop doing whatever you were doing to make the confontation so ugly? You also didnt mention if the perp was armed. If he aint armed and you are, there needs to be more than the fear that he MIGHT do something.

    Im 5' 11" and 200. I have military, karate and defense training. Its going to be hard for me to be in fear of my life against an unarmed man. Then again, if the same perp (unarmed) were messing with my wife, who has health issues and physical weeknesses, it would take a lot less on their part to get me to shoot them. Wont even have to go as far as fear of her life. Fear of her being injured will do it.

  5. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by walt629:237991
    Quote Originally Posted by Unfettered Might View Post
    Your local law is the important answer here, no one answer will apply to everyone in every state.

    In my state there is no "brandishing" law, guess because we actually pay attention to the long honored definition of the word instead of trying to redefine english to make something illegal when it obviously should not be.

    To simplify for those of you that are confused, "brandishing" means "to point or wave about in a threatening manner", it does not mean to just expose the weapon.
    You see, that's what I learned regarding brandishing. A lot of responses here and on other posts would have you believe that an unintentional exposure (your shirt rides up when you bend over at the store to get the pizza sauce off the bottom shelf) is to be considered brandishing.

    Drawing your weapon and maintaining a safe position (muzzle down at your side finger off the trigger) in my book is not ratcheting the situation up a notch, it IS putting yourself in a higher state of readiness. IMHO.
    Only 2 reponses (becuase i forgot to put *SARCASM* for those who might get confused with my response to the 1 true post that said open carrying or displaying will land you in hot water when another driver see's the gun and lies about it being pointed. I'll go edit my post so there is back to only one post that states having an open firearm could be taken as brandishing.

    Does anyone know the amount of attacks that the attacker gave the potential victim anytime to give a warning vs attacks that happened so fast, the gun was drawn and fired so quickly, there was no time to warn? I know there are a dozen or so stories on this forum...but a dozen of of 2 million cases of self defense doesn't really paint a correct picture. I always thought of an attack as being fast, like a car crash. Even if you see if coming, though more times than not it comes blindly, you only have a second to react, and brandishing will be the last thing on your mind. I see brandishing as having the mental capacity to choose what you are doing, while drawing in self defense should be a 2nd nature, muscle memory reflex of maintaining a living status.

  6. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by walt629 View Post
    No offense meant, but if that's the law in Colorado and what you've been taught, I'm real glad I don't live in Colorado. Laws that mandate that once the weapon is draw and not discharged in self-defense is considered brandishing the weapon, put you as a law abiding citizen at odds with your own safety. Those laws need to be reviewed.

    If the bad guy runs away after the exposure of your weapon. I consider the situation diffused and it would be your responsibility to REPORT THE BAD GUY, not the other way around. I am making some assumptions in that you are the law abiding citizen here and not the one that started the conflict that resulted in you having to draw your weapon.
    You dont even have to physically have a gun with you to be charged with menacing (brandishing) here. But pointing one at somebody will certainly land you in jail unless you were legally justified in using it but I dont wanna go down that road so until SHTF, I keep it holstered. My friend was in a gas station when a guy went up and told the clerk to give him the money as he held a little knife. My friend lifted up his shirt exposing his gun and said "I dont think thats a good idea" and the guy ran off. Cops came and my friend told them what happened and the cop said that although it was brandishing, he wouldnt charge him luckily for him.

    Quote Originally Posted by Providence Ranch View Post
    Phillips Gain, you may have an accurate legal definition in some places, but I could not disagree more with your logic.

    The simple presentation of a firearm is NOT a use of deadly force. Some entities may argue so, but I challenge you to find a single example of someone who has suffered serious bodily injury or death as the result if the simple presentation of a weapon.

    Presenting a weapon is a SHOW of force, an act meant as a final warning that deadly force WILL be used imminently. But it is not, in itself, a use of force.

    Brandishing, according to the simple definition, is to wave or flourish something, and is typically used in the context of a weapon of some sort. Presenting your weapon to a ready position does not qualify as brandishing, nor is it a use of force. It is a warning: the strongest and most responsible warning a gun owner can give his or her attacker before making the ultimate choice of whether to point in and press the trigger.
    In Colorado that is menacing and can be charged as a felony. You dont even need to physically have a gun to be charged with it, but pointing a gun at somebody is certainly going to land you in jail. In Colorado at least.


    Quote Originally Posted by B2Tall View Post
    That's why you call the police as well.
    Agreed, but the law here doesnt recognize scaring somebody with your gun as a legitimate defense to the charge of menacing. So if you told the police, they might just put you in jail, but they also would if the bad guy said you pulled a gun too.

  7. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by B2Tall View Post
    I brought this scenario up a while back on these boards. Showing your gun to a road-rager while he's still in his car is considered brandishing no matter where you are. While the both of you are in your cars he is no real threat to you, hence the brandishing. As I said on another thread not too long ago, only a fool would open their shirt (i.e. brandish) to display a firearm in any situation. Great way to get yourself shot or arrested regardless of who was truly the instigator.

    If you feel the need to simply display your weapon in order to dissuade a potential threat, then it's not a real threat. Any prosecutor will ask you "Well if it was that bad, why didn't you draw your weapon and point it at him?? Why didn't you call 911??"etc., etc. Most instructors will tell you that half-measures are not a good idea. That doesn't mean you have to automatically shoot somebody, but at least draw your weapon and (this is important) announce your intention to "defend yourself" if the threat continues. Some guy screaming obscenities at you because you took "his" parking spot is not a threat. That same guy screaming at you while advancing with a tire iron in his hand....well, that's a different story.

    Another way to protect yourself from any possible brandishing charges is to call the police afterwards and give them a full account of what happened....even if the situation was defused. You don't want LE showing up at your house a few hours later acting on a report that you threatened some guy with your gun in a parking lot. If I ever have to draw on a potential threat in the course of defending myself, I will definitely call the police afterwards regardless of whether shots were fired or not. Just another chapter in the time-honored tradition of "covering one's ass".
    Well said. I started the OP to see where some of us draw the line between brandishing and defense. I am still of the mind that, if I am thrust into a situation where I feel strongly enough that I am in serious danger to draw my weapon, and the simple act of drawing the weapon diffuses the situation, then the simple act of drawing the weapon was a defensive move and not brandishing.

    When I think of brandishing, I think of my example of putting the weapon on the dashboard to avoid perceived problems. Pulling up your shirt to show off your weapon when you are not threatened is brandishing. Pulling your weapon and pointing it at someone in road rage is brandishing.

    And I completely agree. Be the first one on the phone to 911! Don't let the other guy get the 911 drop on you.

  8. #47
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    So then what is it called when a police officer does it to a person? I am not picking on the police just pointing out what I have seen done by them. What makes them(police) exempt from brandishing?

  9. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Kasper View Post
    So then what is it called when a police officer does it to a person? I am not picking on the police just pointing out what I have seen done by them. What makes them(police) exempt from brandishing?
    This does:
    18-1-701. Execution of public duty.


    (1) Unless inconsistent with other provisions of sections 18-1-702 to 18-1-710, defining justifiable use of physical force, or with some other provision of law, conduct which would otherwise constitute an offense is justifiable and not criminal when it is required or authorized by a provision of law or a judicial decree binding in Colorado.

    (2) A "provision of law" and a "judicial decree" in subsection (1) of this section mean:

    (a) Laws defining duties and functions of public servants;

  10. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by walt629 View Post
    When I think of brandishing, I think of my example of putting the weapon on the dashboard to avoid perceived problems. Pulling up your shirt to show off your weapon when you are not threatened is brandishing. Pulling your weapon and pointing it at someone in road rage is brandishing.
    I call that "open carry" and if your state allows it then I don't see a problem with it although you'd have to check on the letter of the law. Now, if the gun was out of sight and you place it on the dashboard as a direct response to someone's actions, it could very well be construed as brandishing.

    As I said....if you think you can solve the problem simply by displaying a gun, then it's not much of a threat to begin with and you should probably keep the gun where it is. Kinda hard to prove you were in fear for your life if you think the "threat" could be so easily dissuaded simply by revealing a firearm.
    (Insert random tough-guy quote here)
    "See my gun?? Aren't you impressed?" - Anonymous sheepdog
    The hardware is the same, but the software is vastly different.

  11. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by B2Tall View Post
    Kinda hard to prove you were in fear for your life if you think the "threat" could be so easily disuaded simply by revealing a firearm.
    Well said. I think its best to avoid having to go to court to prove your innocence and just keep your gun holstered until SHTF

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