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Thread: Tragic Story

  1. I think a bigger point no one seems to bring up is our justice system allowed this murderer to plead guilty to involuntary manslaughter in a plea deal, and decided to indirectly shift blame to the firearm manufacturer. This story just goes to show how the justice system tends to forget the victims.

    This case shows a 17-year-old, who is considered an adult in the legal system for the most part, deliberately stole a firearm. Then the defendant deliberately pointed this firearm at another person, was told to put it down by everyone and then the trigger was pulled. Having the gun "accidentally" going off is no different than the defendant claiming he "accidentally" broke into vehicles and "accidentally" stole a firearm.

    If I were the parents of the victim, I would be very angry with the prosecutor for allowing such a travesty of justice to happen. During the sentencing phase where I would be allowed to talk as the victim's father, I would vent equally about the prosecutor and the justice system as I would about the defendant. I would then demand for the maximum fifteen years.

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  3. #42
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    Tragic? What is tragic about a criminal in training having his training cut short? His bud may have been an innocent victim of the criminals stupidity and that is a shame. But to have any sympathy for the criminal just because he's 17 years old? Nah! I don't think so.

    How can a trigger be 'accidentally' pulled? The action of the finger was involuntary? The action of stealing the gun from the car, going to his friends house, holding the stolen gun in his hand, pointed at his sleeping friend and pulling the trigger was an 'accident'? Nope. Don't buy it at all.

    I'll tell you what IS a tragedy. Using this story to gin up the sales of your particular product line. Kind of like a used car salesman using a horrific car crash where people died to demonstrate why the car with air bags he wants to sell you is your best bet. Pathetic at best.
    To not stand against injustice is to stand for it.
    Don't confuse my personality and my attitude.
    My personality is who I am, my attitude depends on who you are.

  4. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Deserteagle:242807
    Quote Originally Posted by Warbirds View Post
    I will stop by the gun store later to check the packing list but I don't think your brain comes standard with ever glock. So there is still no safety on a glock.
    The brain is required before you buy the gun. It usually comes with birth.
    Well...not always. There are some who never get their full issue of brains, and go ahead and buy guns anyway. Fortunate or unfortunate, there is no requirement to have a brain in order to exercise your rights as an American. (As evidenced frequently by some of the posts we see on these forums!).

  5. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Warbirds:242836
    Quote Originally Posted by BC1 View Post
    A safety is a mechanical part that can fail (NRA Basic Pistol Course).
    What is their context for this statement. Is it used for "don't rely on the safety, keep your finger off", or is it "it's best not to have one" because it only causes problems?
    The only reliable safety is constant attention to the four basic safety rules:

    1. Treat every gun as if it is loaded at all times.
    2. Off target...OFF TRIGGER!
    3. Know your target and what is in line with it.
    4. Never allow your muzzle to point at anything you are not willing to destroy.

    If you ignore these in favor of the more convenient (and apathetic) use of a manual safety, you will eventually suffer tragedy. If you employ both safety rules AND a manual safety, then you must ingrain the use of the manual safety into your "on target - on trigger (safety off); off target - off trigger (safety on)" exercises.

  6. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Deserteagle View Post
    The brain is required before you buy the gun. It usually comes with birth.
    Tis true. But the most important part of having a brain at all is the "Post Partum" education/enlightenment.

    There was a series of Government sponsored "commercials" that ran for a few years a while back.... the punch line to those were "..a mind is a terrible thing to waste."

    I'm not exactly sure why they "pulled" those little reminders off the air...... maybe they discovered that the gamebit wasn't working. (One of the clearest and most obvious decisions the Government has arrived at in recent years, IMHO.)

    GG
    Fanatics of any sort are dangerous! -GG-
    Which part of "... shall NOT be infringed..." confuses you?
    Well now, aren't WE a pair, Raggedy Man? (Thunderdome)

  7. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Providence Ranch View Post
    The only reliable safety is constant attention to the four basic safety rules:

    1. Treat every gun as if it is loaded at all times.
    2. Off target...OFF TRIGGER!
    3. Know your target and what is in line with it.
    4. Never allow your muzzle to point at anything you are not willing to destroy.

    If you ignore these in favor of the more convenient (and apathetic) use of a manual safety, you will eventually suffer tragedy. If you employ both safety rules AND a manual safety, then you must ingrain the use of the manual safety into your "on target - on trigger (safety off); off target - off trigger (safety on)" exercises.
    Your adherence to the "four basic rules" is both laudable and a basic requirement. Most of us will agree and treat all weaponry thus.

    To assume that because some of us prefer to have a manual safety in addition and to imply that we would use that in lieu of the "Four basics" is non-sequetor and presumptuous. (.... and borderline disingenuous.)

    As for your redefined firing "drill".... I think you will find that most of us are fully capable of multi-tasking to the extent of incorporating the simple expedient of clicking off the "safety" while drawing to enguage. (To suggest otherwise is getting downright insulting.)

    Personally, I don't care what your personal level of "safety" consists of. Nor should it matter to you what mine are. This whole business of safety discussions is just an exchange of ideas/ideals/thoughts/lines of reasoning, you can take the suggestions/ideas or leave them. However, it WOULD be nice to have at least the relative comfort zone of assuming that safety is a high priority with ALL shooters. (I have found this not to be the case in all instances.) There's ALWAYS the 10%'ers.

    It would be MOST ignoble to die at the hands of an unsafe weapons carrier. Just sayin'.

    GG
    Fanatics of any sort are dangerous! -GG-
    Which part of "... shall NOT be infringed..." confuses you?
    Well now, aren't WE a pair, Raggedy Man? (Thunderdome)

  8. #47
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    You must engage your brain first anytime a weapon is in your hands, go to any gun show and watch folks, the first thing most of them does is hold the gun with their finger on the trigger, a glock is just as safe as a revolver, that said glock had nothing to do with the death, no more than a car used in a robbery, mechanical device pure and simple, crook in training gone.

  9. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by walt629:242889
    I'll tell you what IS a tragedy. Using this story to gin up the sales of your particular product line. Kind of like a used car salesman using a horrific car crash where people died to demonstrate why the car with air bags he wants to sell you is your best bet. Pathetic at best.
    Did I miss something? Where did the sales pitch happen?

  10. #49
    Many here have expressed remorse for what has happened to these two criminals and their families. I understand and respect those opinions. At least one of these young men had little knowledge of and no respect for guns. Neither had respect for other people.

    I can find very little grief for anyone injured while in the midst of criminal activity. I see the discharge as a continuation of the original theft. As they said in that old TV show "If you can't do the time, don't do the crime". The one that was sentenced to 15 years will probably be out in under ten if he can manage to keep out of trouble while he is inside. We will be protected from him for awhile. This is not some eight year old that had found mom's gun, that I would find tragic.

    The families of these young men did not manage to teach these them respect for weapons, people, or private property. I have little sympathy for their grief. They will have to live with their failure. I believe that each individual is responsible for their own actions. Therefore, I do not believe that society should punish the family but neither do I find them faultless nor do I find much sympathy in my heart for them.

    What about the rest of these kids. When the 16 year old died there were a number of them in the room. Birds of a feather? Did they know the gun was stolen? Did they participate in similar activity? Hanging out with these two makes me wonder about their character as well.

  11. Quote Originally Posted by Caribou View Post
    The families of these young men did not manage to teach these them respect for weapons, people, or private property. I have little sympathy for their grief. They will have to live with their failure. I believe that each individual is responsible for their own actions. Therefore, I do not believe that society should punish the family but neither do I find them faultless nor do I find much sympathy in my heart for them.
    You made me think and bring up an additional point. Besides someone simply stating that the victim helped break into vehicles with the defendant or they find fingerprints, who is to say otherwise? The dead victim cannot speak and argue what is said by the defendant. Not only that, but how the defendant presents himself by trying to disregard the memory his dead "friend" by accusing him to be a criminal is not showing true remorse, but looking for an easy way out. It would make me quite upset as a a judge.

    Quote Originally Posted by Caribou View Post
    What about the rest of these kids. When the 16 year old died there were a number of them in the room. Birds of a feather? Did they know the gun was stolen? Did they participate in similar activity? Hanging out with these two makes me wonder about their character as well.
    Good point to bring up. We don't know if any of these other young adults were charged with anything - I doubt it, but would hope they would be charged.

    I could never imagine when growing up even tolerating such reckless behavior. During my entire childhood until I was 18-years-old I only handled a firearm once (.22LR during a Boy Scout camp). I always knew never to tolerate that behavior for a second, it was instilled by my mom and dad by example and having talks. I would have left, told an adult, and called 9-1-1. I could care less if they were my friends, and what they thought of me.

    When I was in high school I never faced a situation like the article states, but have had situations where I had to stop being friends with people and call 9-1-1 on them for doing some really stupid and illegal stuff. I wasn't a really popular guy at some times, but there were more than a few former friends who are either dead, arrested or on some serious drugs.

    Unfortunately I have run into these same people from high school when I'm working as a police officer. Every one of them have told me they should have taken my prior advice.

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