I mildly brandished last night - Page 7
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Thread: I mildly brandished last night

  1. #61
    I find that even when I carry a gun, I often have to think and act like I am not carrying a gun.

    Just be careful what your state defines and "brandishing."

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  3. #62
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Lacey, WA
    Posts
    344
    OP doesn't post his location, so I don't know if he can OC. That's what I do so it doesn't even progress that far. Glad it turned out well.

  4. Quote Originally Posted by golddigger14s:244100
    OP doesn't post his location, so I don't know if he can OC. That's what I do so it doesn't even progress that far. Glad it turned out well.
    Oregon, and I've been strongly considering doing a 50/50 split between OC and cc

  5. #64
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Pasco, Washington, United States
    Posts
    6,270
    Quote Originally Posted by Deserteagle:244067
    Quote Originally Posted by billwot View Post
    Your right, I made up the "about 90%" figure on the spot. The actual figure is 92%.

    "Fact: Of the 2,500,000 times citizens use their guns to defend themselves every year, 92% merely brandish their gun or fire a warning shot to scare off their attackers."

    Gun Facts Version 3.2 Page 36
    Copyright 2002,
    http://www.keepandbeararms.com/images/gunfacts.pdf

    The data on this page has footnoted sources.
    No wonder liberals are so quick to ban guns, because in 92% of the cases, gun owners use guns improperly and illegally. A few big issues come to mind when thinking about brandishing:
    1. Never point a gun at something you do not intend to destroy.
    2. Escalating the level of force used in a situation is a quick way to end up dead or in jail.
    3. Menacing- depending on the state, it can range from a misdemeanor to a felony. In Colorado, if you verbally threaten somebody, or physically threaten them (aka brandish), you will be put in jail.
    4. A gun is not a toy to wave around to get what you want. It is a tool to be used when all other options have run out and your death is presumed to be imminent and unavoidable without firing your gun.
    I haven't seen any liberals using that statistic for their gun banning...how did you connect those two dots?

    As for your 4 points.

    1. Correct, that is one of the safety rules of firearms.
    2. If you can not leave, and there is no chance of de escalating, you better escalate your agression above your attacker or you will end up dead or in the hospital.
    3 Correct, know your local laws.
    4. Who is calling a gun a toy? Who is saying to wave it around?

    I would like some further explanation on those points if you would.

  6. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by cmhbob View Post
    Wait - what? :)
    cmhbob, this was not said with swagger or attitude, it was a straightforward statement meant to restate his recent decision. It also re-affirmed the FACT that I was willing to use lethal force while I removed the safety, placed my finger on the trigger and aimed for his center of mass. I simply wanted him to SERIOUSLY rethink his decision, as some BGs think their targets will not use the weapons they carry.

    "Go ahead, make my day" insinuates you enjoy killing people, and "Feeling lucky, punk?" can infer that you wish to engage in a confrontation. These are the types of challenging or ambiguous lines I was referring to in my original post. My apologies to Clint Eastwood, those were just the first two that happened to pop into my head. :D
    Edmund Burke: “The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.” – 1784 speech. Taken from Founding Fathers Notes. "The unarmed man is not just defenseless -- he is also contemptible." Machiavelli

  7. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefighterchen View Post
    Being threatened is assault. Telling someone you are going to harm them is assault. After you physically touch them, thats battery. As a paramedic, if i ask someone if I can start an IV and they say no, I can not say, "I am going to start an IV anyways." That is assault. If I grab them and start the IV, that is battery.

    Don't assume anything about the other poster's situation, you weren't there. Do you find it at all hypocritical that you would brandish a firearm against people just following you, but wouldn't against someone who was threatening violence? How would you feel if your peers thought you deserved to have those people follow you?

    I do not feel you did anything wrong in your situation, and I don't feel the other poster did anything wrong either (except the CCW charge for not having his permit on his person). The courts decided that as well.
    Firefighterchen has been critical of me and some of my posts and has made me re-post to clarify some things because he has called me on the carpet. However, I have an immense amount of respect for him because the man KNOWS what he is talking about!

    "Assault" is talking, yelling, swearing, sounds, cat calls, whistles or any attention directed at you that you do not desire and/or that you find offensive. "Battery" is defined as "offensive touching," which means hitting, pinching, poking, tickling, flicking up to and including getting hit with a baseball bat: It is any "touch" of any hand, foot or object that you do not like or don't want to happen.

    And before everyone starts with the "what ifs," yes, the drunk babbling at you on the corner is committing assault, it's just not enough to get him arrested. However, it could be the start of a chain of charges if you move away and he starts t follow you (harassment), grabs your shoulder (battery), and then begs for money (panhandling). It depends on the totality of the circumstances.

    Which brings us back to Cotillion and his situation. First off, Cotillion, if you're still reading this, thank you for posting it for us to learn from and taking the fusillade of Monday-morning quarterbacking from all of us. The reality is that we discuss laws and scenarios on the forums, we practice training in sterile ranges with full lighting and ranges neatly marked, we never have innocent civilians cluttering up are practice field and when it comes time to apply what we have talked about and shot paper targets for and taken classes for and memorized laws for, we realize that there are many, many holes in our training! It's no one's fault - there is simply no way to cover in training every possibility that could happen on the street nor every reaction of a BG, civilian, store clerk or police officer. Real life is much faster than training and most people do much more wrong than Cotillion. Many never learn from their real life experiences - Cotillion did. Most people walk around completely oblivious to their surroundings and would have never spotted the BGs at the store - Cotillion did. And Cotillion doesn't need to apply the laws of the other 49 states, Guam or Puerto Rico, just his.

    We're supposed to be here to learn and support each other. It's a fine line between doing a critique of Cotillion's actions and criticizing Cotillion personally. If every person that posts is hoisted upon his petard, we will find ourselves in short supply of experiences from which we can learn, and, quite frankly, I would appreciate more of these less-than-perfect accounts to find out what happens to people in the real world right her in the U.S. of A. instead of being told what SHOULD happen if and when it does by some expert in a magazine. So, for those of you that have a spiritual bent, I will end with the mantra I frequently beat myself over the head with:
    “Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you." Matthew 7:1-2
    Edmund Burke: “The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.” – 1784 speech. Taken from Founding Fathers Notes. "The unarmed man is not just defenseless -- he is also contemptible." Machiavelli

  8. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefighterchen View Post
    I haven't seen any liberals using that statistic for their gun banning...how did you connect those two dots?

    As for your 4 points.

    1. Correct, that is one of the safety rules of firearms.
    2. If you can not leave, and there is no chance of de escalating, you better escalate your agression above your attacker or you will end up dead or in the hospital.
    3 Correct, know your local laws.
    4. Who is calling a gun a toy? Who is saying to wave it around?

    I would like some further explanation on those points if you would.
    Since you only have issues with numbers 2 and 4:
    2. You are correct, I should have expanded that point. When all other options have run out and running away is not possible either, then escalating or matching the amount of force with your gun is your only option to stay alive. However, there is no need to bring a gun to a fist fight especially when there is still an opportunity to run away and call 911 rather than be the tougher guy who wont back down by pulling out a gun.
    4. It is never acceptable (at least in my state) to threaten lethal force. Pointing or waving a gun at somebody to get want is not okay. The only time it leaves a holster is when you are justified in using lethal force which also implies you have no other options and are facing death.

  9. Thanks Greg. Obviously I made mistakes as I openly admitted several times, I just don't understand why it can't be discussed positively like with some people then you get others coming in basically calling everyone an F-ING retard or other uncalled for comments. Nobody is perfect and that's what these threads are for, to share. I've thought about deleting this app several times as I'm sure other people do.

  10. #69
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    SE Florida
    Posts
    1,880
    After thinking about this scenario, I've come to the conclusion that my first move would have been to cross the street to the other side. If the guys also crossed the street then I would force their hand by stepping to the side and waiting for them to pass. I pocket-carry almost exclusively (usually an LCP or LCR .357) and would have just stood there with my hands in my pocket (i.e. gun in hand) and waited. If they walk past me....great. If not, I'm in a position to act instantly. Wouldn't be the first time I've stood "nonchalantly" with my hands in my pocket.
    (Insert random tough-guy quote here)
    "See my gun?? Aren't you impressed?" - Anonymous sheepdog
    The hardware is the same, but the software is vastly different.

  11. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Cotillion View Post
    Thanks Greg. Obviously I made mistakes as I openly admitted several times, I just don't understand why it can't be discussed positively like with some people then you get others coming in basically calling everyone an F-ING retard or other uncalled for comments. Nobody is perfect and that's what these threads are for, to share. I've thought about deleting this app several times as I'm sure other people do.
    Learing from mistakes is all you/ WE can do. Buy you and your wife holsters and duel carry. She shoots? If not teach her. If you enjoys walks 2 guns is better than one. Especially if one person is being attacked JMO

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