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Thread: State Police violating citizens rights???

  1. Quote Originally Posted by Rich_S View Post
    In my area it's perfectly legal for me to drive with an unloaded pump action shotgun in plain view sitting on my back seat. However, I will never do so because it's not a good idea. If I get stopped for a simple traffic violation the LEO will likely flush me out of the car and have me on the ground at gun point. At minimum it would turn a simple traffic stop into a long headache. So it's perfectly legal but not a good idea. If I transport the gun in a case locked in a trunk my enjoyable afternoon trip to the range won't turn into an unenjoyable headache. I laugh at the people who say well "I'll keep it on the back seat because I can." Well you go right ahead. I'll keep it out of sight in the trunk because that way I can get to my destination without a hassle. Open carry is also 100% legal here but I never do it because it's not a good idea. You wouldn't last five minutes in public before the police arrive. In a may issue state you don't want the police being called to a firearms incident caused by you. It's a good way to get your permit pulled and lose access to your gun rights. So yes, even though certain things are 100% legal that doesn't make it a good idea to do it.
    This post is about carrying a gun for self protection, not transporting firearms to the gun range. The gun isn't going to do any good for me for self defense unloaded and locked up in trunk. If you don't know the difference between carry a gun for self defense and transporting a gun to the gun range, I question your qualifications as an instructor.

    The fact that a cop may not like the fact that I carry a gun for self defense isn't going to stop me from carrying that gun for self defense in the way that I decide is the most effective, and legal, method.

    If the cop confiscated the gun because he thought the subject was breaking a gun law, than the subject would have to be charged with breaking a gun law for the confiscation to be legal.
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

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  3. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    This post is about carrying a gun for self protection, not transporting firearms to the gun range. The gun isn't going to do any good for me for self defense unloaded and locked up in trunk. If you don't know the difference between carry a gun for self defense and transporting a gun to the gun range, I question your qualifications as an instructor.

    The fact that a cop may not like the fact that I carry a gun for self defense isn't going to stop me from carrying that gun for self defense in the way that I decide is the most effective, and legal, method.

    If the cop confiscated the gun because he thought the subject was breaking a gun law, than the subject would have to be charged with breaking a gun law for the confiscation to be legal.

    Question all you want. See if I care. There's always some internet commando who knows more than the next guy. The OP doesn't specify that the gun was being carried for self defense.

  4. Quote Originally Posted by Rich_S View Post
    Question all you want. See if I care. There's always some internet commando who knows more than the next guy. The OP doesn't specify that the gun was being carried for self defense.
    You have made it abundantly clear in your posts that you deem what actions a police officer MIGHT take is the most important factor to consider when transporting a firearm, rather than what the law actually is. I simply refuse to live my life according to what a police officer's opinion or actions might be.

    I don't have a gun case for one of my rifles. It happens to ride to the range in the back of my car, plainly visible through the back window. Pefectly legal. Cop stops me for speeding and confiscates my rifle because I was transporting it in a legal manner - he's going to have explain to the judge why he confiscated a firearm with no reasonable suspicion that anything was illegal regarding my possession and transportation of said firearm.
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

  5. #34
    Cop doesn't work for that department anymore? So they may have had other problems with this cop?

  6. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by ironmike86 View Post
    Cop doesn't work for that department anymore? So they may have had other problems with this cop?
    That is a common sign. Many fire to rid themselves of problem officers. But when the chief is bad, then in comes the FBI.

  7. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by bukeduke View Post
    Arkansas State Police have defined a 'journey' - Fort Smith gun rights | Examiner.com
    This is a link to a definition of the Arkansas Journey Law. My brother-in-law was protected from prosecution by this law, as he was outside his normal travel area. I have been trying for 6 months to get him to hire a lawyer and fight this.
    Get him to get a lawyer is the first thing. Then get the definition as posted changed. If your friends live say 200 miles away you couldn't carry by their reasoning.
    (a journey is defined as traveling beyond your circle of neighbors and general acquaintances our(sic) outside a personís normal travel routine)
    That part sucks.

  8. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    You have made it abundantly clear in your posts that you deem what actions a police officer MIGHT take is the most important factor to consider when transporting a firearm, rather than what the law actually is. I simply refuse to live my life according to what a police officer's opinion or actions might be.

    I don't have a gun case for one of my rifles. It happens to ride to the range in the back of my car, plainly visible through the back window. Pefectly legal. Cop stops me for speeding and confiscates my rifle because I was transporting it in a legal manner - he's going to have explain to the judge why he confiscated a firearm with no reasonable suspicion that anything was illegal regarding my possession and transportation of said firearm.
    Have you ever been told that you have an incredible ability to understand the obvious? In a may issue state where the LEOs are not gun friendly and don't always understand the laws it's the only way to go. I don't mind carrying concealed and keeping range guns locked in my trunk. It's really not a big deal. LEO's have been known to arrest and charge to the hilt when in doubt. Case law shows that people have been convicted for following the letter of the law but not following it as the LEO on scene or the prosecutors think it should be followed. I default to the safest method and stay out of trouble that way. Even if we had an open carry friendly culture I still wouldn't do it because I prefer that strangers know as little about me as possible. If you're open carrying in a bank and someone comes in armed to rob it how do you suppose that would end for you? If you have a shotgun on a window rack in a pick up and some a hole cuts you off and decides to call the police to say you pulled the gun on him because you beeped the horn at him it might just make for a bed ending to your otherwise enjoyable afternoon. I simply don't need those headaches. If you're in a shall issue state with different culture YMMV but I still see no reason not to exercise caution and stay out of trouble. We have all seen what happened in the OP. You mention going before a judge and going after the cop if you were in the OP's position. I'd personally rather not be bothered getting into something like that so I avoid it as much as possible.

  9. Quote Originally Posted by Rich_S View Post
    If you're open carrying in a bank and someone comes in armed to rob it how do you suppose that would end for you?
    There it is.... I'll show you a real world example of how it would probably end:

    Gun Owner Saves Lives In The Richmond VA Golden Market Shooting

    Quote from Philip Van Cleave, President of Virginia Citizens Defense League:
    Quote Originally Posted by Philip Van Cleave
    Here are my thoughts from watching that tape:

    Talk about a cold-blooded, fast attack where an innocent was shot without warning! Unbelievable. Situational awareness is really important. Luck doesn’t hurt, either.
    Open carry was an advantage in this case because in the video I saw just how fast the GO managed to draw his gun and begin to return fire. You always hear about how open carry is so bad tactically – you’ll be the first one shot, etc. Oh, yeah? The GO had a HUGE gun in plain sight and he was NOT shot. Who got shot first? An unarmed store owner.
    And, what happens when the guy with the gun gets spotted before the robbery, again in real life?
    Open carry deters armed robbery in Kennesaw - Atlanta gun rights | Examiner.com

    Captain Jerry Quan, the Commander for Precinct One, where the Wafflehouse is located, confirmed Matt Brannan's story as one in which the open display of a pistol deterred a well armed robbery crew.
    So, now you will be able to provide examples where open carriers have been shot first?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich_S View Post
    I simply don't need those headaches. If you're in a shall issue state with different culture YMMV but I still see no reason not to exercise caution and stay out of trouble. We have all seen what happened in the OP. You mention going before a judge and going after the cop if you were in the OP's position. I'd personally rather not be bothered getting into something like that so I avoid it as much as possible.
    It's people like you that have helped us to come to the situation that we in America find ourselves in. You are more interested in catering to the increasingly overreaching police actions of the government so that you, personally, can continue to slink through life with your tail between your legs content with the privileges that you have paid the government for permission to exercise while at the same time living in the fear that at any time the government might take that privilege away from you. If you want to live your life that way so be it. But the travesty is that you are teaching others that that is the only way to live.

    If it wasn't for the Hellers and McDonalds (and on a smaller scale, groups like those that took Seattle to court and overturned their gun ban in parks), we would all be living the life that you live - catering to whims of government in fear that the government might take away what little privileges they require you to pay for and lick their boots in order to obtain.
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

  10. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich_S View Post
    In my area it's perfectly legal for me to drive with an unloaded pump action shotgun in plain view sitting on my back seat. However, I will never do so because it's not a good idea. If I get stopped for a simple traffic violation the LEO will likely flush me out of the car and have me on the ground at gun point. At minimum it would turn a simple traffic stop into a long headache. So it's perfectly legal but not a good idea. If I transport the gun in a case locked in a trunk my enjoyable afternoon trip to the range won't turn into an unenjoyable headache. I laugh at the people who say well "I'll keep it on the back seat because I can." Well you go right ahead. I'll keep it out of sight in the trunk because that way I can get to my destination without a hassle. Open carry is also 100% legal here but I never do it because it's not a good idea. You wouldn't last five minutes in public before the police arrive. In a may issue state you don't want the police being called to a firearms incident caused by you. It's a good way to get your permit pulled and lose access to your gun rights. So yes, even though certain things are 100% legal that doesn't make it a good idea to do it.
    Colorado Revised Statute 18-12-204 is very clear on this issue (3) (a) A person who may lawfully possess a handgun may carry a handgun under the following circumstances without obtaining a permit and the handgun shall not be considered concealed:





    (I) The handgun is in the possession of a person who is in a private automobile or in some other private means of conveyance and who carries the handgun for a legal use, including self-defense; or





    (II) The handgun is in the possession of a person who is legally engaged in hunting activities within the state.





    (b) The provisions of this subsection (3) shall not be construed to authorize the carrying of a handgun in violation of the provisions of section 18-12-105 or 18-12-105.5.
    See, it's mumbo jumbo like that and skinny little lizards like you thinking they the last dragon that gives Kung Fu a bad name.
    http://www.gunrightsmedia.com/ Internet forum dedicated to second amendment

  11. #40

    Reply about ARKANSAS Vehicle Carry

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich_S View Post
    Do you have to keep a firearm in plain view in a vehicle or is it an option to lock it up in the trunk or a locked case? Do you have to own or rent a house or is it a better option to sleep on a park bench? I somehow doubt that the world makes sense to you.

    THIS is the ARKANSAS LAW about carrying weapons in a vehicle:

    Automobile carry:
    Concealed carry in the vehicle is ok with a permit. Without a permit, handguns must be unloaded and cased; glove compartment carry of a handgun is illegal; rifles and shotguns may be carried in plain view or secured in commercial cases.


    Subsequent to this,the person involved MAY(operative word MAY) have been in violation of AR Law. This still does not excuse the LEO from taking the weapon. Where I worked,if a weapon was recovered from a NON PERMITTED person WITHOUT FOID or any other FORM OF CONCEALED CARRY LICENSE,and the weapon was NOT encased,then the weapon would be held and the PERSON CHARGED with Unlawful Use of Weapon(ILCS 720 5/24) The weapons information would be incorporated into the arrest report,the Gun Desk would be called to verify that the gun is or is not registered,and then the weapon would be inventoried,sealed in a bag and stored in safe storage until disposition.Additionally,the vehicle would be impounded as well.If the weapon was secured in a case,locked,we would need a warrant to obtain the weapon and to open the case.
    IF the person HAD valid FOID and/or a permit(yes Illinois allows for a permit called a Firearms Control Card,with severe restrictions) Then the weapon would be secured DURING THE STOP,verified thru the gun desk and returned to the owner at the completion of the stop.
    In the ARKANSAS Case,based on what is written here, the person DID NOT have an AK permit,so the weapon should have been encased.The person did violate the current AK law regarding weapons. A new dynamic,(the passage act) that was mentioned is a VERY OLD law that,according to my research has not been repealed or amended.Having said that,the person whom had his weapon "taken" (stolen) by the Trooper DOES HAVE a valid foundation for a Civil Action. I would suggest that the person contact a competent attorney,ask the NRA for help and consider filing Charges against the Trooper,his agency and the State for CR Violations.
    The OTHER dynamic that MAY exist for this person is that if he was a TRANSIENT RESIDENT of AK(about to move there but not residing there) and had a permit from any other state,he would have been in CLEAR compliance to the vehicular carrying of a firearm under AK State Law. Im researching further and WILL post the ENTIRE law that relates to this matter so that everyone is CLEAR about it as opposed to the speculations Im reading here.

    And YES there is a JD after my name.




    A
    " We came,We Saw,We kicked their asses and when the screaming stopped,the blood dried,the smoke cleared and the dust settled...PEACE WAS RESTORED"

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