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Thread: safety requirements

  1. #61
    You have to pass a test to receive a driver’s license. Does that mean that everyone who has a driver’s license is a good driver? For some people gun safety is not a priority. If you try and show them how to be safe and they don't care or are to dim to understand then I would not go shooting with them and would leave as soon as they start handling their firearm. I have a friend who is like this and have told him that his carelessness scares me but he hasn't changed so we don't shoot together. He is also a horrible driver so I don't ride with him either.

    Just like the 2nd A stupidity is a right, some just exercise it more than others.

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  3. #62
    As I said in my earlier post in this thread, the problem is that by and large, our society seems less and less to be embracing gun ownership and safe gun handling as core fundamental values that every child should be taught. This is leading, more and more, to accidents due to unsafe gun handling. The problem is there. I hate looking to new regulations and laws as much as anyone. But we as a society have put ourselves in this position by allowing our culture to change the way it has over the last several decades. Now its up to us as a nation to fix it. Id love to see us return to the values taught in the late 1700's in colonial America. But I don't hold much hope of that happening. What do you suggest? Realistically.

  4. Quote Originally Posted by Providence Ranch View Post
    What do you suggest? Realistically.
    That we strive for all states to be like Alaska, Vermont, Arizona and Wyoming. Comparing the states the have no training requirement to carry a gun to those states with a training requirement to carry a gun, there simply is no statistical difference in the number of gun accidents among those carrying a handgun for self defense. I fail to see this as a problem.
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

  5. #64
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    So. Central PA
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    94
    To the OP,

    There was recently a home invasion where a 66 year old woman who had never fired a gun before in her life successfully defended herself with a gun she had never fired and had only owned for 2 weeks. She knew just enough to put the cartridges in it, keep her cool, ignore the 911 operator telling her not to shoot at the guy who came in through the window he smashed, point it in the right direction and pull the trigger 3 times. Home invader died, she didn't.

    Would it be better if she had not had the gun and been killed because she still needed to save up a couple hundred bux for training? If you think so, then vote for requiring training first and accept the loss of life resulting from unarmed people not being able to defend themselves as the cost of being safe? Really?

    PA doesn't require any training for a CCL because those that might need it the most (women being stalked by ex husbands or boyfriends for example) may not live long enough to get training if they don't have the gun.

    I think Vermont, Alaska, and Arizona have it right, states with no training required have it almost right. The statistics I've seen by John Lott say states that require training put feeling good ahead of saving lives. Vermont has had unlicensed carry for any non-felon, no training required, for over 100 years. Works just fine.

    Fitch

  6. #65
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Sandpoint, Idaho
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    1,315
    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    That we strive for all states to be like Alaska, Vermont, Arizona and Wyoming. Comparing the states the have no training requirement to carry a gun to those states with a training requirement to carry a gun, there simply is no statistical difference in the number of gun accidents among those carrying a handgun for self defense. I fail to see this as a problem.
    I mostly agree with this, and although I can't speak for Vermont, I know the attitudes of people in the western states are a lot different from those back East. People as a whole tend to be a lot more tightly wound, stressed out, and generally volatile in highly populated areas. Big cities might want to consider keeping some kind of very basic training in place, or at least a simple written and range test that shows a very basic understanding of firearms.

    But overall, yeah, most of the places that have easy firearms regs are doing just fine, thanks.

  7. #66
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    So. Central PA
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    Quote Originally Posted by Providence Ranch View Post
    As I said in my earlier post in this thread, the problem is that by and large, our society seems less and less to be embracing gun ownership and safe gun handling as core fundamental values that every child should be taught. This is leading, more and more, to accidents due to unsafe gun handling. The problem is there. I hate looking to new regulations and laws as much as anyone. But we as a society have put ourselves in this position by allowing our culture to change the way it has over the last several decades. Now its up to us as a nation to fix it. Id love to see us return to the values taught in the late 1700's in colonial America. But I don't hold much hope of that happening. What do you suggest? Realistically.
    I disagree with everything you wrote because the data says it's just not true. You have a fantasy that their is a problem but there is exactly no data to back it up. In fact the data shows just the opposite.

    Our society is more and more embracing gun ownership, and more importantly the use of guns as a personal defense tool. Over the last 20 years we have gone from only a few states that allowed concealed carry to now all but one, IL, allowing concealed carry. There are now almost 40 "shall issue" states. When my Utah permit comes back I'll be able to carry in 37 states.

    Training is available in more places and more forms than it has ever been before in the history of the country. Inexpensive NRA courses are available in just about every town in the country. Hunter Safety classes are taught free once a month in every wildlife management district in PA, heavily attended by both sexes as soon as they are about to be eleven years old (there are between 50 and 100 people at each class - parents attend with their kids and get a refresher, it's a great system), they include a lot of gun safety, and PA isn't the only state that has them.

    The higher number of parents with concealed carry licenses means there are more parents that are willing and able to teach their children the fundamentals of gun safety. Their love for their children will have them interested in making sure they manage their firearms properly.

    The existance of forums like this one that spend a lot of time on what amounts to "Best Practices" discussion is educating those parents and that will be passed on.

    Finally, Dr. John Lott, a respected research economist, author of More Guns Less Crime has addressed your question in depth and found that statistically there is exactly no difference in accidental deaths with guns between places that have all sorts of training requirements and place that don't have any, like Vermont.

    We are doing just fine thankyouverymuch. What we absolutely don't need are any more government regulations to solve a problem that doesn't exist. Regulations that will get people killed because they were killed while saving up to pay for a gun safety class. Worry about something else, we got this one covered.

    Fitch

  8. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR:252014
    Quote Originally Posted by Providence Ranch View Post
    What do you suggest? Realistically.
    That we strive for all states to be like Alaska, Vermont, Arizona and Wyoming. Comparing the states the have no training requirement to carry a gun to those states with a training requirement to carry a gun, there simply is no statistical difference in the number of gun accidents among those carrying a handgun for self defense. I fail to see this as a problem.
    What's your source for these statistics? Sorry, but despite the valiant efforts of the many good Americans and pro gun organizations, I see a steady erosion of our 2nd Amendment rights, a steadily growing threat of disarming by our government, and a complete attitude of apathy from the growing populations of voting liberal leftists. I love the energy and optimism of those here who believe otherwise, and I'm fighting for the same thing. But I recognize that there is still a huge problem out there: a vast segment of our American population who will hurt our chances to save our rights simply because of ignorance. Guns and gun safety should be something taught in the family. That's what's becoming less prevalent.

  9. Quote Originally Posted by Providence Ranch View Post
    What's your source for these statistics?
    What did I post? I believe it was: "there simply is no statistical difference in the number of gun accidents among those carrying a handgun for self defense."

    How do I prove there are no statistics? It's up to you to prove that there are statitistics to indicate that the problem you speak of actually exists.
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

  10. #69
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Houston Metro Area, Texas
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    3,004
    We already have a carry right it is called the 2nd Amendment, have been practicing gun safety since my dad gave me my first 22. Some folks no matter how much you wish it are not going to be a safe driver, shooter or practice safe sex, just the facts, Texas requires firing test prior to going to written test have no problem with this requirement for CC, still think 2nd Amendment grants all the rights I need to carry and maybe one day Texas will wake up like AZ and several other states.

  11. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR:252347
    Quote Originally Posted by Providence Ranch View Post
    What's your source for these statistics?
    What did I post? I believe it was: "there simply is no statistical difference in the number of gun accidents among those carrying a handgun for self defense."

    How do I prove there are no statistics? It's up to you to prove that there are statitistics to indicate that the problem you speak of actually exists.
    Simple. If you're going to assert that there's no statistical difference, you have two choices. You can quote a reputable study that shows your assertion to be true, or you can just pull it out of the air and expect everyone to simply believe you. I'm not trying to be difficult. Neither am I trying to say that statistics always tell the whole story. Just looking to expand the discussion to include facts as well as opinions.

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