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Thread: safety requirements

  1. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Fitch:252292
    I disagree with everything you wrote because the data says it's just not true. You have a fantasy that their is a problem but there is exactly no data to back it up. In fact the data shows just the opposite.

    Our society is more and more embracing gun ownership, and more importantly the use of guns as a personal defense tool. Over the last 20 years we have gone from only a few states that allowed concealed carry to now all but one, IL, allowing concealed carry. There are now almost 40 "shall issue" states. When my Utah permit comes back I'll be able to carry in 37 states.

    Training is available in more places and more forms than it has ever been before in the history of the country. Inexpensive NRA courses are available in just about every town in the country. Hunter Safety classes are taught free once a month in every wildlife management district in PA, heavily attended by both sexes as soon as they are about to be eleven years old (there are between 50 and 100 people at each class - parents attend with their kids and get a refresher, it's a great system), they include a lot of gun safety, and PA isn't the only state that has them.

    The higher number of parents with concealed carry licenses means there are more parents that are willing and able to teach their children the fundamentals of gun safety. Their love for their children will have them interested in making sure they manage their firearms properly.

    The existance of forums like this one that spend a lot of time on what amounts to "Best Practices" discussion is educating those parents and that will be passed on.

    Finally, Dr. John Lott, a respected research economist, author of More Guns Less Crime has addressed your question in depth and found that statistically there is exactly no difference in accidental deaths with guns between places that have all sorts of training requirements and place that don't have any, like Vermont.

    We are doing just fine thankyouverymuch. What we absolutely don't need are any more government regulations to solve a problem that doesn't exist. Regulations that will get people killed because they were killed while saving up to pay for a gun safety class. Worry about something else, we got this one covered.

    Fitch
    I absolutely love your attitude against government intrusion. And I share it. I'm totally not advocating any more of it. I'm only trying to make a point. You said there are more shall issue states than ever. Why do you think that is? Why should it have to be, if the 2A is all we really need? You say that there are more gun safety classes available than ever before. Why do you think that is? I believe it rather proves my point. Such classes would not be necessary if our society still taught such things in the home. We are past the point of no return, and this is a problem, whether you acknowledge it or not. Our culture will never return to what it was, because gun ownership, although guaranteed as a right, is now treated almost exclusively as a privilege to be granted or revoked at the whim of government. If it truly were a cherished right, why is it not taught about in schools? It used to be. My point is, we can't turn back the clock. We have to figure out how to safeguard our rights by promoting education without inviting any more government control. I just don't know how to accomplish that. So I ask again: Any ideas?

  2.   
  3. Quote Originally Posted by Providence Ranch View Post
    Simple. If you're going to assert that there's no statistical difference, you have two choices. You can quote a reputable study that shows your assertion to be true, or you can just pull it out of the air and expect everyone to simply believe you. I'm not trying to be difficult. Neither am I trying to say that statistics always tell the whole story. Just looking to expand the discussion to include facts as well as opinions.
    The Geography of Gun Deaths - Richard Florida - National - The Atlantic

    For example, Washington has no training requirement to carry a handgun, Arkansas does. Vermont does not even require a permit to carry concealed, let alone training, Louisiana does require training for a concealed carry permit, but open carry is allowed with no permit.
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

  4. Quote Originally Posted by Providence Ranch View Post
    We have to figure out how to safeguard our rights by promoting education without inviting any more government control. I just don't know how to accomplish that. So I ask again: Any ideas?
    For one, stop hiding our guns away like evil objects when not required to do so by law. Instead, provide a visual example of an ordinary American going through ordinary American life responsibly carrying a firearm for self-protection. Concealed carry does nothing to present an alternative image to that presented to the public by the Brady Bunch and the anti-gun media.
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

  5. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR:252531
    Quote Originally Posted by Providence Ranch View Post
    Simple. If you're going to assert that there's no statistical difference, you have two choices. You can quote a reputable study that shows your assertion to be true, or you can just pull it out of the air and expect everyone to simply believe you. I'm not trying to be difficult. Neither am I trying to say that statistics always tell the whole story. Just looking to expand the discussion to include facts as well as opinions.
    The Geography of Gun Deaths - Richard Florida - National - The Atlantic

    For example, Washington has no training requirement to carry a handgun, Arkansas does. Vermont does not even require a permit to carry concealed, let alone training, Louisiana does require training for a concealed carry permit, but open carry is allowed with no permit.
    This study does not speak to your point. You assert (I think) that states requiring a handgun safety course show no more or less gun-related injuries or deaths due to negligence than states that do not. The scope of this study is far too broad, though, encompassing suicides, crimes, etc. as well as accidents. Further, it only focuses on deaths, while completely factoring out gun related injuries due to negligence. If you're looking for a source to validate your opinion, this isn't it.

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