What are your carry variables? - Page 4

View Poll Results: How do you carry?

Voters
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  • Round Chambered, Safety On

    33 43.42%
  • No Round Chambered, Safety On

    2 2.63%
  • Round Chambered, Safety Off

    32 42.11%
  • No Round Chambered, Safety Off

    6 7.89%
  • Other

    9 11.84%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Thread: What are your carry variables?

  1. #31
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
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    Gray Court, SC
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    Quote Originally Posted by tattedupboy View Post
    Obviously, it's debatable whether shooting a mugger is the result of defending property or life so I'll use another example. If I'm a clerk in a convenience and I see a shoplifter and shoot him after he has stolen some merchandise, without him ever having threatened me directly, I would not be justified. If, however, I brandished my weapon in order to prevent him from doing it, or threatened to shoot him, then that would be justified, because deadly force would not have been employed (Yes, it might seem extreme to threaten to shoot a petty thief, but the burden of proof would be on him to prove that I made the threat; furthermore, my property would still be intact).
    A few states have clarified that debate. SC passed the "Castle Doctrine" self-defense bill, it simply states that if a criminal breaks into your home, your occupied vehicle or your place of business, you may presume he is there to do bodily harm and you may use any force necessary against him. If you have the right to be somewhere you have the right to defend yourself and others. Furthermore, this law provides protection from criminal prosecution and civil litigation for those who defend themselves from criminal attack.
    USAF Retired, CATM, SC CWP, NH NR CWP, NRA Benefactor
    To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them... -- Richard Henry Lee, 1787

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  3. #32
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Indiana
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    4,650
    Quote Originally Posted by doublenutz View Post
    Tat, just want to first clarify that, we are not busting your chops but bro the shoplifter example is worse than the first. These days in retail, shoplifters often times are more violent and likely to have armories in their pockets more than you may know. More retailing employees are injured every year by shoplifters than by in your face armed robberies. So much so that, most of America's largest retailers have adopted a policy prohibiting employees (other than Loss Prevention officers) from stopping shoplifters, for the safety of their employees and customers.

    I have a friend that works for Lowe's in Texas and he has personally had a gun jammed in his face by a shoplifter he tried to stop from stealing merchandise worth less than $30.00. Shoplifters in the act of a their crime have often made the commitent that they are going to steal and that means that they also realize they may be caught. So the armed shoplifter also understands that if they get caught, they will increase their chances of getting away.
    What is so bad about this example? It is my experience that most shoplifters are unarmed petty thieves, primarily schoolkids. Also, please don't dismiss my scenario as if it is impossible, because it is actually quite probable and realistic. Why shouldn't a storeowner or clerk prepare themselves for this type of scenario?

    Please let's not get into the game of me laying out a scenario and you telling me why it's a bad example. My so-called "bad examples" are taking place every day, and law abiding gun owners have only a few precious moments to decide whether to fire their weapons, brandish them, do nothing, or call the police.

  4. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by tattedupboy View Post
    O... If, however, I brandished my weapon in order to prevent him from doing it, or threatened to shoot him, then that would be justified, because deadly force would not have been employed (Yes, it might seem extreme to threaten to shoot a petty thief, but the burden of proof would be on him to prove that I made the threat; furthermore, my property would still be intact).
    This is aggravated assault! It's a felony. Hope you like bunking with Bubba :o

  5. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    I've got to say, it's become outright offensive the number of people implying, or stating, that someone who doesn't carry with a round in the chamber is "afraid" of their gun. It's a matter of personal choice and the circumstance under which one feels the need to carry. It has nothing to do with training, practice, comfort with the weapon or the ability to use it if necessary.
    The fact that some people have a different opinion than you about what is necessary doesn't mean you have to be an a$$hole about it. And what condition it is appropriate to carry in is a matter of circumstance and opinion.

    +1 I agree completely! I carry a Kel-Tec so there is never a safety on. Sometimes I carry loaded, most of the time not. I have been around guns my entire life, and because I choose to not always carry hot doesn't mean I am afraid or inept. I guess my chances of regretting not carrying loaded are probably about the same as someones elses chance of regretting that they DO carried loaded.....

    -PW

  6. #35
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    St. Louis Metro Area (IL)
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    146
    Quote Originally Posted by PDW View Post
    +1 I agree completely! I carry a Kel-Tec so there is never a safety on. Sometimes I carry loaded, most of the time not. I have been around guns my entire life, and because I choose to not always carry hot doesn't mean I am afraid or inept. I guess my chances of regretting not carrying loaded are probably about the same as someones elses chance of regretting that they DO carried loaded.....

    -PW
    Ok, I am going to chime in on this one. We should not be passing judgement on anyone who makes a effort to protect themselves or their families. Yes I do carry chambered and I will only carry chambered because that is what "I" am comfortable with.

    For those who do not carry one chambered I would ask, why? If it is because they don't feel comfortable with it, then I would recommend training. If it is because of a personal decision being made then, leave it alone. It is their decision.

    I do personally think that carrying a gun unchambered could cost you time when a BG presents himself, but what is more dangerous? Carrying an unchambered gun or not carrying one at all.

    Personal choice is big here guys. You want the anti's to see that having a CCW is a personal choice we have made to protect our families and self, then we need to understand other peoples personal choices. Don't flame or insult people because their views differ from yours.

    <Stepping off Soap Box Now>
    NRA Rifle Coach
    NRA Pistol Instructor
    NRA Personal Protection In the Home Instructor

    --- Some of the friendliest people I have ever talked to are gun owners and shooters and according to the gun activists we are the mass murders and felons of the nation???

  7. #36
    I'm glad to see that some understand the personal decision I've made to not always carry chambered. Again, I will restate that we do not carry in town, but only in backcountry. I fall sometimes, and my gun is older with no firing-pin block. It is a SAFETY concern, although the potential for negligent discharge might be minimal. I would also like to chime in about whether guns make suitable deterrents. I believe that most instances a gun is pulled, BGs realize real fast this is a serious threat to their life. Our CCW instructor pointed out that when a gun is pulled on someone they will typically turn and head the other way. Are you going to shoot someone in the back? I'm not. Guns make businesses, cars, and homes safer, despite what I consider gray-area laws.

  8. #37
    I carry a Glock, with one in the tube.. I don't want to be in a situtation having to rack the slide, the time that takes could result in an outcome I don't want.. I hope and pray the day won't come I have to use my Gun, but if it does I want to be ready............
    Glock Carrier in SC.

    MufDady

  9. #38
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    NE Portland, Oregon - PacNW
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    328
    Quote Originally Posted by tattedupboy View Post
    Please let's not get into the game of me laying out a scenario and you telling me why it's a bad example. My so-called "bad examples" are taking place every day, and law abiding gun owners have only a few precious moments to decide whether to fire their weapons, brandish them, do nothing, or call the police.

    No biggy bro... just thought I would share a valid statistic and real life store policies that are reacting to shoplifters in retail environments today.
    MΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

  10. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by tattedupboy View Post
    What is so bad about this example? It is my experience that most shoplifters are unarmed petty thieves, primarily schoolkids. Also, please don't dismiss my scenario as if it is impossible, because it is actually quite probable and realistic. Why shouldn't a storeowner or clerk prepare themselves for this type of scenario?

    Please let's not get into the game of me laying out a scenario and you telling me why it's a bad example. My so-called "bad examples" are taking place every day, and law abiding gun owners have only a few precious moments to decide whether to fire their weapons, brandish them, do nothing, or call the police.
    Tattedupboy,

    I'm not trying to bust your chops here, it's the idea I'm going after, not you! Good people can have wrong ideas about the law, and I don't want to see good people go to prison because of those ideas.

    Brandishing a deadly weapon is aggravated assault, which is defensible by the same criteria that deadly force is defensible by: namely, to stop a deadly assault (or deadly threat of assault) or to stop a forcible felony in progress. Shoplifting is a not a felony and certainly not a forcible felony. So, brandishing a weapon at a shoplifter who is not making any threats is a felony and will land you in prison.

    Generally speaking, it makes no sense to brandish a weapon. You can only legally do so in situations where you or others are in immediate danger of being killed or seriously injured (or if the BG is in committing forms of forcible felony such as mugging and rape). These are the same criteria where the use of deadly force is defensible (in my state, Arkansas, check your state's laws). Unless you really think you have a chance at calming down that murderous attacker, you're only putting yourself at risk by brandishing and not using.

    Again, not trying to bust anybody's chops, but getting this stuff right is critical to all of us.

    (ishi is not a lawyer, but maybe should have been one)
    Last edited by ishi; 10-03-2007 at 04:31 AM. Reason: to be even more pedantic

  11. #40
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Drakes Creek, AR
    Posts
    371
    Can we please get back on topic? Can someone post up a new topic on this current discussion..tnx
    DrLewall
    "Doc"
    Drakes Creeks, AR
    www.kiltsrock.com
    "A gun unloaded and cocked aint good for nuttin!"--Rooster Cogburn

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