Students want chance to defend themselves
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Thread: Students want chance to defend themselves

  1. #1
    Join Date
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    Students want chance to defend themselves

    I posted this on OpenCarry.org ( http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum4/9913.html ) but it has more relation to this forum. It's an interesting read...

    Taken from CNN.com

    http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/04/14/campus.guns/index.html

    CINCINNATI, Ohio (CNN) -- "Would you rather just sit there and cower underneath a desk when someone executes you or would you rather have a chance to defend your life? That's what it really boils down to."

    Michael Flitcraft says students should be allowed to protect themselves from potential killers.

    Michael Flitcraft, a 23-year-old sophomore at the University of Cincinnati, has become a leading advocate for college students to carry weapons on campus. He's an organizer for Students for Concealed Carry on Campus, a grass-roots organization that was formed after last year's Virginia Tech massacre that left 32 college students and professors dead.

    The group boasts more than 25,000 members.
    Standing on the Cincinnati campus, Flitcraft calmly explained he is licensed to carry a weapon in Ohio. He wants to carry his gun on campus to defend himself from potential killers, but by law he can't.

    "To me it makes no sense that I can defend myself legally over there," he said, pointing to the city streets. "But I am a felon if I step on the grass over here." Watch a growing movement for guns on campus
    The issue of guns on campuses has intensified over the last year in the wake of the Virginia Tech shootings and picked up again after the more recent killings at Northern Illinois University. Lawmakers in at least nine states are considering legislation to allow guns on campus. Other states have struck down legislation.

    Utah is the only state to allow weapons at all public universities. Colorado allows students at universities to carry weapons, except the main university campus in Boulder. In Virginia, Blue Ridge Community College allows students with a proper concealed-weapons permit to be armed. See the status of guns on campus
    For many, allowing college students to carry a gun is a tricky and complex issue.
    "I don't think the answer to bullets flying is to send more bullets flying," said Gene Ferrara, the police chief at the University of Cincinnati. "My belief is we ought to be focusing on what we do to prevent the shooting from starting."

    Ferrara was a Cincinnati cop for more than a dozen years before he became chief of police at the university. He also said that there are practical concerns from a law enforcement perspective: If you're responding to the scene of a shooting, how do you sort out who is the bad guy and who is the heroic student with a permit?

    "The other side of that, I shoot everybody with a gun who doesn't have a uniform on and I then I end up shooting somebody who was a citizen with a carry permit," Ferrara said.

    He says education and outreach are key and that providing students with safe and anonymous ways to report suspicious behavior can go a long way in preventing violence. "All of the research shows someone knew before the shooting started that the shooting was going to happen."

    At the University of Cincinnati, most of the students who spoke to CNN said the idea of guns on campus scares them. "I think that it is completely absurd," said senior Jacob Metz.

    Freshman Lauren Reams added, "It shocks me."
    Security officials insist that young adults are safer on campus than just about anywhere else. Since the so-called Texas Tower shootings at the University of Texas in 1966 when 17 people were killed, there have been about a dozen shootings at colleges or universities.

    At Weber State University in Utah where students can carry concealed weapons, professor Ron Holt said a weapon provides added protection from potential gunmen. "I see carrying a concealed firearm as a kind of life insurance policy; 99.99 times you will never need it," he said.

    Flitcraft and other students across the nation who support gun rights say they won't give up. Students for Concealed Carry on Campus has established a page on the social network site Facebook. They don't want all students to be armed; what they're pushing for is for students 21 and older who are licensed gun owners to have the right to carry guns on campus.

    The group is busy planning a protest for later this month in which students who support guns on campus will come to school wearing empty holsters.

    "What is a better situation: Someone coming in and shooting in a classroom [or] someone in that classroom having a chance to defend their life and take out that threat?" Flitcraft said.

  2.   
  3. #2
    Makes perfect sense to me but then again I am not a politician.
    By faith Noah,being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear,prepared an ark to the saving of his house;by the which he condemned the world,and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith Heb.11:7

  4. #3
    I wish them good luck.

    This quote frightens me
    The other side of that, I shoot everybody with a gun who doesn't have a uniform on and I then I end up shooting somebody who was a citizen with a carry permit," Ferrara said.

    Obviously, I don't think it is a good idea to shoot anyone that has a gun.
    Last edited by DrDavidM; 04-15-2008 at 01:58 PM.
    David

    The only person available to protect you 24 hours a day is you.

  5. #4
    I love people who are "trained" and should be the only ones to carry a gun who then turn around and hang themselves in quotes. So your going to shoot anyone without a uniform who has a gun....What happened to rules for force????


    Then there is this quote!!!

    "I don't think the answer to bullets flying is to send more bullets flying,"

    Then why do you carry a gun to work sir???? If you don't need to stop bullets flying with bullets, then does that mean you don't carry a loaded gun???? Holy Crap!!!!
    They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
    ---Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759.

  6. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by whiptrackercracker View Post
    I love people who are "trained" and should be the only ones to carry a gun who then turn around and hang themselves in quotes. So your going to shoot anyone without a uniform who has a gun....What happened to rules for force????


    Then there is this quote!!!

    "I don't think the answer to bullets flying is to send more bullets flying,"

    Then why do you carry a gun to work sir???? If you don't need to stop bullets flying with bullets, then does that mean you don't carry a loaded gun???? Holy Crap!!!!
    Whiptrackercracker I was thinking the same thing! If returning fire was not need to stop a life threatening threat then why do they carry guns???

    Lets look at two scenarios.

    1. BG enters class room and starts firing. He gets a few shots off when a CCW holder draws fires several shots ends threat.

    2. BG enters class room starts firing.......and firing.......and firing.......and firing.....and firing...... walking around executing people till he/she is out of rounds.

    I think the choice is pretty clear!
    "When Government fears the people, it's liberty. When people fear the Government, it's tyranny."
    - Benjamin Franklin

  7. #6
    When have the cops gotten to one of these events while there are still bullets flying anyway??? It would be a rare scenario that they would actually be there in time to have to distinguish the good guy from the bad guy as the shooting was occurring. The Trolley Square shooting in Salt Lake comes to mind even though it didn't happen on a campus--there was an off duty LEO (not wearing a uniform) in the mall, the cops knew it before they arrived and had no problem knowing who was on their side when they entered the mall. I'll grant that each scenario is and will be different, but I have a hard time with the idea that a good cop wouldn't be able to recognize the difference between a responsible CCW holder and a wacko who just wants to shoot the place up.

  8. #7
    Sad thing is that the Cincy cops usually shoot anyony who has a gun and isn't wearing a uniform. Does everyone remember the video of the Blue Ash Police Chase and the End of it? I totally support the Students organization and when I go back to get my degree you bet I will have my empty holster on everyday until it turns into a loaded holster. They should do that anyway... keep their holsters on everyday to let people know that they're serious.

  9. #8
    it really would be great if we had the right to protect ourselves everywhere, and not just in designated areas.
    You can have my freedom as soon as I'm done with it!!!

  10. Unhappy

    I met with the Campus Police and the Chancellor of Student affairs and I was denied. He requested a meeting with me to discuss it and he tells me that they make no exceptions. Even though my arguments were valid.

  11. #10
    I think its going to get to the point that the gestapo stazi universities are going to get lawsuits for every injury occured for their violation of the 2nd amendment and inability to protect their students. I have not concern about getting shot by an officer assuming its an average officer. If I get shot by an officer who does not use rules of force first, then their name is going to be on every news channel in this country as soon as I get out of traction. I came to a utah school because it was close to family and cost effective. I am glad I did though, as they believe in student's rights here.
    They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
    ---Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759.

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