A great article...
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  1. #1

    A great article...

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/20070918...m/aselfdefense

    Should teachers be allowed to pack a gun?

    By Brad Knickerbocker Tue Sep 18, 4:00 AM ET

    Ashland, Ore. - In court documents, she's known as "Jane Doe." Innocuous enough, but the woman behind that pseudonym pushes one of the nation's hottest political buttons: guns and school safety.

    What Ms. Doe wants to do is take her Glock 9-mm pistol to the high school in Medford, Ore., where she teaches.

    She's licensed to carry a concealed weapon and she has what many supporters say is a legitimate reason for being armed: a restraining order against her ex-husband based on threats he's allegedly made against her and her children.

    But district policy prohibits anyone except a law-enforcement officer from bringing a weapon onto campus. When word got out that she had a concealed-carry permit, administrators reminded her of that policy. There's the political rub: According to state law, "any element relating to firearms and components thereof, including ammunition, is vested solely in the Legislative Assembly."

    Backed by gun-rights groups, Doe intends to challenge the school district in state court this week. Meanwhile throughout the country, lawmakers are filing bills that would make it legal for adult school employees to carry firearms, in some cases providing special weapons safety training for those who want to be part of their school's security force in addition to their classroom teaching duties.

    Gun-rights groups and school boards around the country are paying close attention to the Oregon case.

    "There's a specific state statute that prohibits local governments, including school districts, from passing laws or policies prohibiting people from owning or possessing firearms," says James Leuenberger, the Portland, Ore., lawyer representing the teacher.

    "Jane Doe," who agreed to be interviewed by phone on condition of anonymity, says she does not want to be viewed as an "Annie Oakley." Trying to extricate herself from an abusive relationship led her to buy her first gun just a few years ago, she says. Prior to that she had not been an activist in defense of the US Constitution's Second Amendment provision regarding "the right to keep and bear arms."

    But as a veteran teacher, she has come to believe strongly that having responsible armed adults on campus could have prevented tragedies such as those at Columbine High School in Colorado, Thurston High School in Oregon, and Virginia Tech University last April.

    "I have no doubt at all that any time a criminal has gone into a school intending to commit violence they did so knowing nobody was going to be able to stop them," she says. "We've seen what happens when teachers do nothing or can do nothing, and that's not acceptable to me."

    According to the National Conference of State Legislatures, 37 states have laws specifically banning guns at schools. In general, administrators, teachers' organizations, and law-enforcement agencies favor such laws. In the confusion of a school shooting, police officials have said, adding guns to the situation just makes the predicament more dangerous.

    The state panel investigating the April 16 shootings by a mentally disturbed student who killed 33 people at Virginia Tech University (the nation's deadliest school shooting) agrees.

    "If numerous people had been rushing around with handguns the possibility of accidental or mistaken shootings would have increased significantly," the panel wrote.

    But that has not stopped a push by the NRA and other gun advocates to allow guns on school property as a safety measure.

    In Michigan last week, 16 state lawmakers sponsored legislation allowing teachers, administrators, and other school employees to carry concealed weapons on school property. Ohio has a similar bill pending.South Carolina, Alabama, and Virginia are among several other states that have considered lifting school campus gun bans this year, according to Stateline.org, which tracks state issues.

    Louisiana lawmakers refused to pass a bill that would have outlawed guns in college dormitories, and legislators in Maine similarly killed a bill that would have given colleges the authority to prohibit guns on campuses.

    Anthony Stavros, a member of the Nevada State Board of Regents governing higher education and a Las Vegas police captain, has proposed deputizing university employees as reserve officers, trained and qualified to carry weapons. The Iowa Board of Regents is close to allowing campus police to be armed.

    But efforts to allow guns in grade schools and high schools tend not to get very far in state legislatures. The South Carolina measure failed. Administrators and the state teachers' union in Michigan have voiced strong opposition to the proposal there.

    So far, just one state - Utah - allows concealed weapons on campus. Utah's law applies to public colleges and universities. The University of Utah opposed the 2004 legislation that allows weapons on campus (including those owned by students with concealed carry permits), but lost in the state supreme court.

    For high school teacher "Jane Doe," who takes her case to court this week, the issue is very personal.

    "I have two children in school," she says, "and I would like to think that if something like that ever happened, there would be somebody there to do the right thing to protect my kids."
    I wish her the best of luck!!

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  3. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    New Orleans, LA
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    2,784
    That's a great article. To me it seems like common sense. You should be allowed to carry if you have a permit. Of course the criminals know they won't have anyone there that can stop them.

    I have a new mailbox at a place down the street for my company so I'll be going there from now on instead of the Post Office. That's one less place I have to go and leave my gun in the car.


    Memberships: NRA, GOA, USCCA
    Guns: Glock 26, Ruger LCP, Beretta 90-Two .40, Beretta PX4 Storm Subcompact 9MM, Beretta Tomcat, Bushmaster Patrolman M4

  4. #3
    All the Oregon legislature has to do is amend the Penal Code to place a limitation on places where a firearm cannot be carried. Texas Penal Code and CCW law prohits a firearm in a school or educational faclility, or on a School bus. This takes the burden off school districts. She may win but the legislature may put in the prohibition.

  5. If it was allowed I would be quite hesitant to carry at work, a major mid-west university with 40,000 students. The campus is so dense with people and classrooms being next to each other and across the halls, you would be hard pressed to find a 'safe' direction to shoot an attacker without also hitting someone else. I know legislation for allowing permitted carrying of firearms on campus did not even come to a vote this year. I hope if they do allow that they make the special provision that those people get serious training to be allowed to carry. Current carry permits do not require any training, just pay the fee and pass the background check. Our campus police are equal in all respects to State Police, they carry of course. And they train, train, train. They have all day training events when classes are not in session and at least once a year train
    with city police, sheriff, state, and ATF using campus buildings.

  6. #5
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by WanderingSol07 View Post
    If it was allowed I would be quite hesitant to carry at work, a major mid-west university with 40,000 students. The campus is so dense with people and classrooms being next to each other and across the halls, you would be hard pressed to find a 'safe' direction to shoot an attacker without also hitting someone else. I know legislation for allowing permitted carrying of firearms on campus did not even come to a vote this year. I hope if they do allow that they make the special provision that those people get serious training to be allowed to carry. Current carry permits do not require any training, just pay the fee and pass the background check. Our campus police are equal in all respects to State Police, they carry of course. And they train, train, train. They have all day training events when classes are not in session and at least once a year train
    with city police, sheriff, state, and ATF using campus buildings.
    Wow! Almost 10 years! That's a record when it comes to thread resurrection.

    The reason why you have this opinion is because you have likely no training yourself and therefore do not know what you are talking about. Please inform yourself about the states that already have campus carry. Since 9 states already allow some type of carry, you certainly can point me to the numerous incidents where an innocent person was shot by mistake.

    It will be very easy to find the 'safe' direction to shoot an attacker without also hitting someone else. Just shoot the attacker. Everyone else is running away from him. The biggest problem is innocent people crossing your line of fire, which will end as soon as you start shooting. Everyone is then running away from you as well.

    Note that a campus carry law is not only for carrying on campus, but also for carrying to and from the campus without the need to store the firearm in the car on a public off-campus road or parking lot (where it can be easily stolen).

    As for training requirements, you have no clue either. One shouldn't be prevented from saving their own life by government-mandated training. Those that legally carry firearms already know very well that they are legally liable for their actions. Since you mention that you work at a university, realize that your employer may be legally liable for your actions. That's enough of a training incentive.

    Law enforcement firearms training is often misunderstood. If you think your campus police is well trained in armed response, you are likely wrong. It takes about 2-3 full days of training to get someone who has never touched a firearm to the basic level of handgun training for law enforcement. The rest is then just practice.

    Note that this comment comes from someone who does take training serious. I have a 4-day handgun training course coming up in a few weeks. That's around $2,000 for the class, lodging, travel, 2,000 rounds of ammo, and food.

    You still can do something productive and learn other life saving skills, such as first aid for trauma injuries. People do not die instantly from gunshot wounds. They bleed out. There are well known methods to deal with this. There is no permit required to carry a life saving tourniquet, or two, or three.

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