Disney World Concealed Carry - Page 17
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Thread: Disney World Concealed Carry

  1. So you are telling me that you read that [You are prohibited from Carrying concealed in] any portion of an establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises, which portion of the establishment is primarily devoted to such purpose. You like to throw belittling, passive aggressive comments around so let go back to grammar school shall we. Alright Children what does the term "Any" mean? Well the Merriam-Webster's dictionary describes it as: used to indicate one selected without restriction, one, some, or all indiscriminately of whatever quantity, one or more —used to indicate an undetermined number or amount, used to indicate a maximum or whole. It further tells us that it can be interchanged with the words: Every and all. So if we replace the word Any above with those words we get the following two sentences: Every portion of an establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises, which portion of the establishment is primarily devoted to such purpose. (and) All portions of an establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises, which portion of the establishment is primarily devoted to such purpose. So if I simplify the sentence to say: "You cannot carry a gun into any part of that establishment", it means that same as the sentences: Every part of that establishment you cannot carry a gun into. (and) Every part of that establishment is a place you cannot carry a gun.

    So this means that if Walt Disney World says we have one park / resort wide license (which is how it works one license for an entire park) to dispense and serve alcohol, both at our restaurant locations as well as from traveling and outdoor vendors. That every portion of the park is now open to sale and consumption of alcohol. Making it illegal to carry a concealed weapon in any (every, all) portion(s) of our parks and resorts. Of course as far as Walt Disney World and resorts are concerned this is a moot point. In 2008 Florida became a "take your gun to work state" meaning that there would be no reprisals against those with concealed weapons permits that kept their guns in their locked cars. However since the entire of the property is used for the storage and transportation of high explosives (fireworks) Disney is exempt to that law, making it illegal to even have your concealed weapon in your car.

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  3. #162
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan Brumfield View Post
    So you are telling me that you read that [You are prohibited from Carrying concealed in] any portion of an establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises, which portion of the establishment is primarily devoted to such purpose. You like to throw belittling, passive aggressive comments around so let go back to grammar school shall we. Alright Children what does the term "Any" mean? Well the Merriam-Webster's dictionary describes it as: used to indicate one selected without restriction, one, some, or all indiscriminately of whatever quantity, one or more —used to indicate an undetermined number or amount, used to indicate a maximum or whole. It further tells us that it can be interchanged with the words: Every and all. So if we replace the word Any above with those words we get the following two sentences: Every portion of an establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises, which portion of the establishment is primarily devoted to such purpose. (and) All portions of an establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises, which portion of the establishment is primarily devoted to such purpose. So if I simplify the sentence to say: "You cannot carry a gun into any part of that establishment", it means that same as the sentences: Every part of that establishment you cannot carry a gun into. (and) Every part of that establishment is a place you cannot carry a gun.

    So this means that if Walt Disney World says we have one park / resort wide license (which is how it works one license for an entire park) to dispense and serve alcohol, both at our restaurant locations as well as from traveling and outdoor vendors. That every portion of the park is now open to sale and consumption of alcohol. Making it illegal to carry a concealed weapon in any (every, all) portion(s) of our parks and resorts. Of course as far as Walt Disney World and resorts are concerned this is a moot point. In 2008 Florida became a "take your gun to work state" meaning that there would be no reprisals against those with concealed weapons permits that kept their guns in their locked cars. However since the entire of the property is used for the storage and transportation of high explosives (fireworks) Disney is exempt to that law, making it illegal to even have your concealed weapon in your car.
    I am not going to get into a battle over semantics with you.
    you are free to do whatever it is that you want to, just don't post bad info to a forum like this.
    the bottom line is that your interpretation of the law is incorrect and you've been advised to get the book written by Gutmacher which is considered to be like a bible for law abiding FLA gun owners.

  4. #163
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    SE FL and SE OH
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    5,598
    It boils down to places like Chili's. They sell alcoholic beverages and have a bar. They also have dining areas. Gun at bar can get you in trouble if spotted while in dining area it won't.
    NRA Certified Pistol Instructor
    NRA Certified RSO
    Normal is an illusion. What is normal to the spider is chaos to the fly.

  5. #164
    I have to agree with the above interpretations. We go to Texas Roadhouse quite often and they DO have a bar where they sell alcohol, according to Gutamcher I can sit anywhere in the place except at the bar. Secondly since it was asked about the restroom since lots of times you have to go through the bar to get to it, according to Gutmacher (If I remember correctly) you are then in violation of the statute. I usually refer back to Gutmachers book and sorry but I will always take his word above almost everyone's on a forum since he is an expert on the law.

  6. #165
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Battle Creek Mi
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    Quote Originally Posted by apvbguy View Post
    what do you do if the bathroom requires you to go through the bar to access?
    OK this is getting a tad redicilous...
    "The sword dose not cause the murder, and the maker of the sword dose not bear sin" Rabbi Solomon ben Isaac 11th century
    "Don't be so open minded that your brains fall out!" Father John Corapi.

  7. #166
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Valrico, FL
    Posts
    231
    I have read Gutmacher's book and I can tell you that his interpretation of it is this... You can conceal carry a firearm into an establishment that serves alcohol as long as isn't their primary service.
    In other words, if it is a bar it is off limits. If it is a restaurant that has a bar you can carry there but you can not approach or sit at the bar. To say that you can not walk past the bar to get to a restroom is absolutely ridiculous.

    Now, as far as concealed carry in Disney World it "MIGHT" be found illegal according to Florida Statute 790.251
    specifically, this sub-paragraph:

    790.251 Protection of the right to keep and bear arms in motor vehicles for self-defense and other lawful purposes; prohibited acts; duty of public and private employers; immunity from liability; enforcement.—(1) SHORT TITLE.—This section may be cited as the “Preservation and Protection of the Right to Keep and Bear Arms in Motor Vehicles Act of 2008.”
    .
    .
    .
    .
    (7) EXCEPTIONS.—The prohibitions in subsection (4) do not apply to:(a) Any school property as defined and regulated under s. 790.115.
    (b) Any correctional institution regulated under s. 944.47 or chapter 957.
    (c) Any property where a nuclear-powered electricity generation facility is located.
    (d) Property owned or leased by a public or private employer or the landlord of a public or private employer upon which are conducted substantial activities involving national defense, aerospace, or homeland security.
    (e) Property owned or leased by a public or private employer or the landlord of a public or private employer upon which the primary business conducted is the manufacture, use, storage, or transportation of combustible or explosive materials regulated under state or federal law, or property owned or leased by an employer who has obtained a permit required under 18 U.S.C. s. 842 to engage in the business of importing, manufacturing, or dealing in explosive materials on such property.
    (f) A motor vehicle owned, leased, or rented by a public or private employer or the landlord of a public or private employer.
    (g) Any other property owned or leased by a public or private employer or the landlord of a public or private employer upon which possession of a firearm or other legal product by a customer, employee, or invitee is prohibited pursuant to any federal law, contract with a federal government entity, or general law of this state.

    History.—s. 1, ch. 2008-7.
    1Note.—Section 15, ch. 2011-119, provides that “[t]he amendments made to ss. 509.144 and 932.701, Florida Statutes, and the creation of s. 901.1503, Florida Statutes, by this act do not affect or impede the provisions of s. 790.251, Florida Statutes, or any other protection or right guaranteed by the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution.”

    There was an employee that was fired because of this statute. Because Disney World manufactures their own fireworks on-site they were able to terminate his employment and from what I understand there was at least an attempt to prosecute.

    I realize this statute is in regards to your right to possess a firearm locked in your vehicle, but I wouldn't want to get caught and be a test case (according to Gutmacher).
    A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

  8. #167
    Quote Originally Posted by Sheldon View Post
    OK this is getting a tad redicilous...
    maybe to you it is getting tad redicilous but to FLA CWFL holders it is a very pertinent/germane discussion. feel free not to comment if you think this conversation isn't worthy of your attention

  9. #168
    Quote Originally Posted by Dale64 View Post
    I have read Gutmacher's book and I can tell you that his interpretation of it is this... You can conceal carry a firearm into an establishment that serves alcohol as long as isn't their primary service.
    In other words, if it is a bar it is off limits. If it is a restaurant that has a bar you can carry there but you can not approach or sit at the bar. To say that you can not walk past the bar to get to a restroom is absolutely ridiculous.
    you are correct, only the most anal would be concerned about passing through a bar portion of an establishment while concealed carrying, I only brought it up to highlight the absurdity of how some people interpret the laws
    Quote Originally Posted by Dale64 View Post
    Now, as far as concealed carry in Disney World it "MIGHT" be found illegal according to Florida Statute 790.251
    specifically, this sub-paragraph:

    790.251 Protection of the right to keep and bear arms in motor vehicles for self-defense and other lawful purposes; prohibited acts; duty of public and private employers; immunity from liability; enforcement.—[COLOR=#000080][FONT=Trebuchet MS](1) SHORT TITLE.—This section may be cited as the “Preservation and Protection of the Right to Keep and Bear Arms in Motor Vehicles Act of 2008.”
    .
    not quite relevant, that statute is aimed at employees of a business or of WDW, not visitors to the property.

  10. #169
    Sorry again Dale and this isn't meant as a jibe at you, but you can interpret it any way you like and call my interpretation ridiculous if you like. But the fact remains that Gutmacher specifically states that you can't even walk THROUGH the bar portion of whatever establishment you are in. There may not be any case law or precedent on this though so you can be the test case, but as for me I will comply with Gutmachers interpretation for the reasons already stated. Common sense tells me that when the law states you can't be in any portion, that would include walking through that area. And I also know the likelyhood of getting caught just walking through is very low or almost nonexistent, but the law says what it says.

  11. Hey guys, new here. Found the forum while poking around the net to learn about Florida's concealed carry laws. I live in CA and do not carry but have no problem with responsible citizens who do. There was an incident today in Disney World:

    Gun found on Walt Disney World ride in Animal Kingdom. - OrlandoSentinel.com

    Short version, a man with a FL permit had a handgun in his back pocket and it fell out on the Dinosaur ride in Animal Kingdom. He did not immediately notice the gun had fallen out and a lady with her grandson found it and handed it in to a cast member. It was loaded but did not have a round in he chamber. After several minutes (not sure how long that is) the man realized it was missing and returned. He claimed to not know about Disney's policy. He was escorted off property for the day but was not banned from future visits and returned the next day.

    We are frequent visitors to Disney World so I started searching for info on Florida's carry laws. Most of what I found matches up with the conclusions from most in this thread. But I did have a few questions I was wondering if any here had any opinions on.

    1- The article says:

    Under Florida law, private landowners such as Disney can limit the open carrying of firearms on property. Disney authorities can order a guest to leave for violating the policy, but if the owner legally possesses the weapon, they cannot press criminal charges.
    Is that true? The parts of the law I read didn't mention that.

    Also, by leaving the weapon on the ride, was he in violation of Florida law since the gun was no longer concealed? Could Disney have therefore pressed charges if they wished? Would this also apply to any person carrying if anyone sees the weapon, other than in a search?

    2- I saw there was a discussion here about this section of the law:

    [QUOTE]any portion of an establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages for consumption.[QUOTE]

    I see where his would definitely include a bar for example. But I'm not clear on why this would not include a restaurant that serves alcohol? After all, isn't the entire restaurant licensed to dispense?

    Also, what about an outdoor booth that sells alcohol? At Epcot, I know they have Margherita stands for example, and you can walk around freely in the park with your drink. Would the exception only apply right around the booth, and if so, isn't that a very grey area since there is no guideline for distance?

    Could Disney be using that angle to give them the right to deny weapons? Or per the article above, do they already have that right as a private business on private property?


    I realize that if you carry and keep the weapon concealed they will never know (unless they institute pat downs or metal detectors), but I'm just wondering what the actual law is, or if it's murky in this case.

    Lastly, I ask you carry enthusiasts, is there any excuse for what this guy allowed to happen? Like I said, I am fine with responsible citizens legally carrying. But in my view, this guy has shown himself to lack the responsibility that should be required. This could have turned out much worse than it did. When you think about some of the warning signs that Disney has put on their rides, I can easily see someone being clueless enough to think the gun was part of the ride or something. Or worse, a kid picks it up and starts playing with it before anyone notices. Or a kid sticks it in his backpack for later.

    Anyway, not trying to step on any toes, just wanting some other opinions. Thanks.

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