It's pure luck if the bad guy doesn't have a .22 auto. - Page 2
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Thread: It's pure luck if the bad guy doesn't have a .22 auto.

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by yuppor View Post
    I never said a word about stopping power. I just said that a guy with "only" a .22lr handgun is every bit as dangerous as a guy with any other sort of gun, if not more so, because of the ease of getting multiple hits/practice with such a gun. Mark Deeds and ***************** were the .45 "hittees", Roger Schuete and Kevin Ryan were the .22 hittees. Kev shot himself in the thigh, during a fast draw with a .22lr conversion unit on a gold cup 1911, in ILlinois, about 1974. It'll probably be in the papers. Deeds shot himself in the leg with a 1911 and ball in SE asia, 1972, Sheathelm put a cast lrn reload .45 down his leg in ILL, about 1979. He was in charge of training for the Sec Of State security guards at the time! :_) That's what mixing up DA and cocked and locked SA draw strokes can do for you. they carried 357's at the time. Roger put a .22 short into his ankle, I'm not sure when, but he showed me the scars from the surgeries, back in 1977 or so! :-) He was thumbcocking a ruger Single 6 during a fast draw. Just because you aint been around much doesn't mean that others haven't.
    True about the .22. Just watched an episode of COPS, guy shot once with a .22, center of mass. Died within 30 seconds behind an Autozone. Cop found a shiny silver casing in the grass, looked to me to be a CCI Stinger casing, which I have 10 of loaded in my P22 sitting behind my head at the moment on the headboard. "stopping power" is a highly fluid term. It's almost a myth, as there is no magic caliber. Still, I carry .40 more than anything because I like a round that can punch through body armor, but I do carry a .22 and feel safe with it because I'm not so ignorant as to believe that the most commonly used caliber in self defense situations is ineffective.
    Last edited by lukem; 06-18-2013 at 10:17 AM.

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  3. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by BluesStringer



    I'll bow out now. You win.
    Probably a good idea. Nobody cares to see you call anyone names that only start with the letter V.

  4. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by yuppor View Post
    I never said a word about stopping power. I just said that a guy with "only" a .22lr handgun is every bit as dangerous as a guy with any other sort of gun, if not more so, because of the ease of getting multiple hits/practice with such a gun. Mark Deeds and ****************** were the .45 "hittees", Roger Schuete and Kevin Ryan were the .22 hittees. Kev shot himself in the thigh, during a fast draw with a .22lr conversion unit on a gold cup 1911, in ILlinois, about 1974. It'll probably be in the papers. Deeds shot himself in the leg with a 1911 and ball in SE asia, 1972, Sheathelm put a cast lrn reload .45 down his leg in ILL, about 1979. He was in charge of training for the Sec Of State security guards at the time! :_) That's what mixing up DA and cocked and locked SA draw strokes can do for you. they carried 357's at the time. Roger put a .22 short into his ankle, I'm not sure when, but he showed me the scars from the surgeries, back in 1977 or so! :-) He was thumbcocking a ruger Single 6 during a fast draw. Just because you aint been around much doesn't mean that others haven't.
    Oh, And don't forget this guy.

    Last edited by lukem; 06-18-2013 at 10:18 AM.
    Samuel Colt did more for equality in America than any civil rights activist.

  5. .40 [S&W] will punch through body armor?
    "...on any given day there are bad people in the world who are able and willing to hurt you." --Lt. Col. Dave Grossman

  6. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by BluesStringer
    If we're going to get into a d i c k-measuring contest over who surrounds themselves with more imbeciles, I'll bow out now. You win.
    Quote Originally Posted by tricolordad View Post
    Probably a good idea. Nobody cares to see you call anyone names that only start with the letter V.
    Wow, look. Just one mention of the word imbecile and one shows up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoganbeg View Post
    .40 [S&W] will punch through body armor?
    Well, if everyone is using the "most commonly used caliber in self defense," (supposedly .22 caliber) who would need body armor that can withstand hits from a .40 caliber anyway?

    And who worries about punching through body armor unless you're planning to shoot cops or armored car guards to begin with?

    Tricolordad is always good for a laugh, ya gotta give him that.

    Blues
    No one has ever heard me say that I "hate" cops, because I don't. This is why I will never trust one again though: You just never know...

  7. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by BluesStringer View Post
    Wow, look. Just one mention of the word imbecile and one shows up.



    Well, if everyone is using the "most commonly used caliber in self defense," (supposedly .22 caliber) who would need body armor that can withstand hits from a .40 caliber anyway?

    And who worries about punching through body armor unless you're planning to shoot cops or armored car guards to begin with?

    Tricolordad is always good for a laugh, ya gotta give him that.

    Blues
    Bluhbluhbluhbluhbluhbluh!!! And apparently you've never been shot. I have. If 9mm (9x19) got me through a vest, I'm sure that .40 (10x22) which is bigger and carries more energy can do it as well. All vests fail, they're only good for a couple rounds anyways.

    Blues, aren't you a prepper? Who are you planning on fighting? C'mon, admit it, who will be coming for you on doomsday...the big bad scary government is coming to confiscate your guns. You said it yourself.

    You'd think that with a molon labe image (aimed at the government) in your signature, you wouldn't walk yourself into that one. Good laugh though bubbles.

  8. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoganbeg View Post
    .40 [S&W] will punch through body armor?
    Yes. So will 9mm and .380. A vest will fail after a few rounds.

    Two sources were used to obtain the data. For the survey, 332 officers were contacted. Data from 136 additional cases were reviewed using only files. All data involved events occurring in the United States involving sworn police officers between the years of 1972 and 2002. Shootings involved handguns (77 percent), shotguns (13 percent), and rifles (6 percent), with 4 percent of shootings coming from unknown firearms. Officers were struck from 1 to 36 times; 75 percent were shot only once or twice. Distances varied from direct contact to 300 feet; 55 percent were shot within six feet.
    http://www.policechiefmagazine.org/m...issue_id=82008

    There's also a *gasp!* shocking occurence of this study saying exactly what I am saying! Vests rated to stop the threat failed more often than vests not rated to stop the threat (caliber). There is also no real correlation to obesity being the cause as the numbers are sporadic.

    Imagine that.
    Last edited by tricolordad; 06-05-2013 at 11:35 AM. Reason: cited sources

  9. #18
    Anyone hear of a study that explored data around one shot stops? I can't remember where I was exposed to it... but I was pretty shocked to learn that EVERY calibre had recorded one shot stops of a perp... but it went on to explore what calibers were most LIKELY to producs the stopping power...so yeah, .22's CAN be lethal... just not as likely to be. What mainly stuck with me is that Hydra Shocks are a good thing for my carry.

  10. Quote Originally Posted by Martin Hruz View Post
    Anyone hear of a study that explored data around one shot stops? I can't remember where I was exposed to it... but I was pretty shocked to learn that EVERY calibre had recorded one shot stops of a perp... but it went on to explore what calibers were most LIKELY to producs the stopping power...so yeah, .22's CAN be lethal... just not as likely to be. What mainly stuck with me is that Hydra Shocks are a good thing for my carry.

    Handgun Stopping Power by Evan P. Marshall & Edwin J. Sanow

    It's fascinating reading although the methodology has since been discredited, or at least come under creditable attack. In essence, there were not enough data points to draw a reliable conclusion, IIRC.

    Hydra-shock bullets have since been superseded by the next generations of bullet designs. I wouldn't hesitate to carry them in my pistol though if that's all I had.
    "...on any given day there are bad people in the world who are able and willing to hurt you." --Lt. Col. Dave Grossman

  11. #20
    Yeah, I know there is a new generation...having never been an early adopter, I enjoy the advantages of R&D already being paid for... Though, in Reno, I am suffering from working long hours and getting to the stores AFTER any selection is removed before me anyway :( Truly been a ***** lately. Never been an internet shopper, but thinking I will have to give in here and start buying ammo online like the rest of the civilized world.

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