It's pure luck if the bad guy doesn't have a .22 auto.
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Thread: It's pure luck if the bad guy doesn't have a .22 auto.

  1. It's pure luck if the bad guy doesn't have a .22 auto.

    cause there;s millions of them. The jennings 22 can be had for as little as $50 used, and costs very little to practice with (quite a bit) and at the typical sub 10 ft ranges seen in civilian self defense, anyone can hit you 4-5x per second with such a .22. I'd much rather face some punk who has a 357 snub than a Woodsman .22lr, ANY day. :-) Just because a .22 aint likely to stop you instantly is no predictor of whether or not it kills you, thru blood loss, organ damage, or infection. It can also destroy nerves or joints, crippling you for life. If, say, you lose sexual function from a .22 hit, did you "win", that fight? I'd tend to say "not by very much of a margin". The guy you put a .45 ball rd thru (his butt, or bicep, lets say) who then surrenders and witnesses keep you from burning into the ground, will probably heal up just fine! :-)

    I personlly know 2 guys who put .45's down their legs. Both were ok on crutches in a very few days, walking normally in a month or so. I also know 2 guys who put .22's down their legs. One suffered a shattered ankle, and very nearly never walked again (but turned out ok) and another was in a leg cast, with a cut artery and buggered up nerve) for months. He turned out ok, too. Dont kid yourself that that guy with "only" a .25 or a .22lr is any less of a threat than a guy with a 12 ga. Both are over the top dangerous.

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  3. #2
    Sounds like you know some pretty careless guy's.

  4. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by yuppor View Post
    I personlly know 2 guys who put .45's down their legs. Both were ok on crutches in a very few days, walking normally in a month or so. I also know 2 guys who put .22's down their legs. One suffered a shattered ankle, and very nearly never walked again (but turned out ok) and another was in a leg cast, with a cut artery and buggered up nerve) for months. He turned out ok, too. Dont kid yourself that that guy with "only" a .25 or a .22lr is any less of a threat than a guy with a 12 ga. Both are over the top dangerous.
    You can find multiple threads where I support anyone's right to carry any weapon they're comfortable with without any criticism from me, but the bold text above is just plain sophistry. Your anecdotes don't contradict modern research on ballistics and/or stopping power for a given round, and at close range, a 12 ga. is at the top of that list, and .22 and .25 are at the bottom, with .22 mag running in between the two in most studies. I would advise you not to kid yourself that there aren't a lot of highly-experienced shooters on this forum who know that what you're saying above is patently false.

    I hope you aren't going to the range with the four morons who "put" rounds into their legs too. Your time on this Earth could be severely abbreviated if your circle of friends has that many negligent discharges in it! I honestly can't say I have personal knowledge of more than one negligent discharge in my 40 years as a gun enthusiast/shooter. If you personally know four people who have negligently shot themselves, you need a new, better-trained class of friends.

    Blues
    No one has ever heard me say that I "hate" cops, because I don't. This is why I will never trust one again though: You just never know...

  5. #4
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    Even tho I do like plinking with my 22lr carrying it for self defense isn't on my list of approved weapons. I put my trust in the larger calibers with large cap. mags. YMMV.
    ~Responsible people who understand that their personal protection is up to them, provide themselves with protection. Those that don't have only themselves to blame.~Proud NRA ~SAF~GoA Member~

  6. any gun is better than no gun

  7. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackhandtug View Post
    any gun is better than no gun
    NO one is arguing that point as that isn't the topic at hand here. OP is suggesting that the .22 and the 12 gauge are somehow equally dangerous despite all evidence to the contrary.
    Be careful when you follow the MASSES, sometimes the M is silent.

  8. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackhandtug View Post
    any gun is better than no gun
    Quote Originally Posted by mspt_99 View Post
    NO one is arguing that point as that isn't the topic at hand here. OP is suggesting that the .22 and the 12 gauge are somehow equally dangerous despite all evidence to the contrary.
    And to boot, using anecdotal evidence of an incredible four people the OP claims to "personally know" who shot themselves somehow. I find that very hard to believe, which makes his lack of understanding about ballistics and stopping power very easy to believe.

    Blues
    No one has ever heard me say that I "hate" cops, because I don't. This is why I will never trust one again though: You just never know...

  9. I never said a word about stopping power. I just said that a guy with "only" a .22lr handgun is every bit as dangerous as a guy with any other sort of gun, if not more so, because of the ease of getting multiple hits/practice with such a gun. Mark Deeds and *********** were the .45 "hittees", Roger Schuete and Kevin Ryan were the .22 hittees. Kev shot himself in the thigh, during a fast draw with a .22lr conversion unit on a gold cup 1911, in ILlinois, about 1974. It'll probably be in the papers. Deeds shot himself in the leg with a 1911 and ball in SE asia, 1972, Sheathelm put a cast lrn reload .45 down his leg in ILL, about 1979. He was in charge of training for the Sec Of State security guards at the time! :_) That's what mixing up DA and cocked and locked SA draw strokes can do for you. they carried 357's at the time. Roger put a .22 short into his ankle, I'm not sure when, but he showed me the scars from the surgeries, back in 1977 or so! :-) He was thumbcocking a ruger Single 6 during a fast draw. Just because you aint been around much doesn't mean that others haven't.
    Last edited by lukem; 06-18-2013 at 10:17 AM.

  10. #9
    Does that mean you have to shoot first, and more then once?
    "Beware the fury of a patient man." --John Dryden,
    British poet, critic and playwright

  11. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by yuppor View Post
    I never said a word about stopping power. I just said that a guy with "only" a .22lr handgun is every bit as dangerous as a guy with any other sort of gun, if not more so, because of the ease of getting multiple hits/practice with such a gun.
    You specifically equated the lethality potential between a .22 or .25 and a 12 ga. shotgun at the "sub 10 ft. range." As such, I'll put my nine projectiles with each pull of the trigger out of my 12 ga. in a very tight pattern at the sub 10 ft. range up against any number of rounds out of a .22 or .25 as being far more dangerous.

    Look, it's like I said right off the bat, carry any weapon you're comfortable with. I'm not arguing that you shouldn't carry a .22 if that's your choice. I'm just correcting your absurd statement that that choice is "more" dangerous to someone you might have to shoot at close range than a shotgun or a .45 or almost any round than the two you mentioned. Both science and common sense contradicts your assertion.

    Quote Originally Posted by yuppor View Post
    Mark Deeds and ************ were the .45 "hittees", Roger Schuete and Kevin Ryan were the .22 hittees. Kev shot himself in the thigh, during a fast draw with a .22lr conversion unit on a gold cup 1911, in ILlinois, about 1974. It'll probably be in the papers. Deeds shot himself in the leg with a 1911 and ball in SE asia, 1972, Sheathelm put a cast lrn reload .45 down his leg in ILL, about 1979. He was in charge of training for the Sec Of State security guards at the time! :_) That's what mixing up DA and cocked and locked SA draw strokes can do for you. they carried 357's at the time. Roger put a .22 short into his ankle, I'm not sure when, but he showed me the scars from the surgeries, back in 1977 or so! :-) He was thumbcocking a ruger Single 6 during a fast draw.
    Assuming all that is true, then I go back to what I originally said: You need a new and better-trained circle of friends.

    Quote Originally Posted by yuppor View Post
    Just because you aint been around much doesn't mean that others haven't.
    So knowing four careless morons who shot themselves means you've "been around" more than me? Quite a leap of logic you're taking there. If we're going to get into a d i c k-measuring contest over who surrounds themselves with more imbeciles, I'll bow out now. You win.
    It's pure luck if the bad guy doesn't have a .22 auto.-eyeroll_icon_by_fantasyfreak_fangirl.gif

    Blues
    Last edited by lukem; 06-18-2013 at 10:17 AM.
    No one has ever heard me say that I "hate" cops, because I don't. This is why I will never trust one again though: You just never know...

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