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Thread: self-defense liability insurance

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelcarry View Post
    1. Insurance companies have very good bill collecting departments and very small insurance payment departments--keep that in mind if you think this is the solution to this problem.
    2. In many states (most likely not NY), you are free of civil liability for a good shoot. That does not mean that anyone or everyone cannot bring suit in this asylum formerly known as the USA. I doubt if a policy would have just been there in the Zim case and picked up his expenses, so take that for whatever it is worth.
    3. Bottom line: You own a firearm; due diligence on your part demands that you understand the laws surrounding its use for defense. Regardless of $$ and insurance etal, if you own a firearm and are in imminent danger you should have already convinced yourself that you will use it to defend yourself--if $$ and insurance are still a priority I suggest you put the firearm away--this is an "all in" decision--no doubts, no other considerations---you delay or think to much you can be killed with your own firearm.
    4. I still think that 'situational awareness(SA)" is numero uno on the "to do" list. You have a firearm because you have some concern somehow, someway, somewhere. SA demands that you use your head about how, where, what and who you do things with as you conduct your life 24/7. If there is a possibility of a confrontation--you run, you evade--you do anything and everything to avoid the final showdown--you do all these things while yelling that you do not want this confrontation (anyone within listening range is now a witness).
    Forget NY. On a clean shoot? No lawsuit because there is no tort. In order to sue you have to prove a tort against you, have actual damages and prove a "close causal connection" between the tort and the damages. And forget every other state. No person can absolve themselves of liability by living in a state with a more protective law. It's not that cut and dry.
    GOD, GUNS and GUITARS

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  3. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by BC1 View Post
    Insurance companies are the mafia of the millennium. You pay crazy premiums for health insurance and they deny the medical necessity of claims. You buy auto insurance and they nickel and dime your repairs. A house fire? Forget ever getting full value back. Now self-defense insurance? They'll send you to their "in network" lawyers and you'll be sure you get the worst dumb-ass attorney on earth. Like that stuttering lawyer in "My Cousin Vinny." Ma... ma ma m m m ma, ma client is in...in n n n inno cecent.
    I can't speak for the rest of them, but lawyers are screened and have to be approved for inclusion in the ACLDN network. Knowledge of firearms and self defense legal issues is required. And I personally know one of the networked attornies in Ohio. He's a member of Ohioans For Concealed Carry, as I am, and he said ACLDN vetted him pretty thoroughly before letting him in. And ACLDN isn't an insurance company.
    Posterity: you will never know how much it has cost my generation to preserve your freedom. I hope you will make good use of it.--- John Quincy Adams
    Condensed Guide To Ohio Concealed Carry Laws

  4. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhino View Post
    I can't speak for the rest of them, but lawyers are screened and have to be approved for inclusion in the ACLDN network. Knowledge of firearms and self defense legal issues is required. And I personally know one of the networked attornies in Ohio. He's a member of Ohioans For Concealed Carry, as I am, and he said ACLDN vetted him pretty thoroughly before letting him in. And ACLDN isn't an insurance company.
    And they have to pass the bar exam and agree to a code of ethics. But that doesn't stop them from being stupid or slime.
    GOD, GUNS and GUITARS

  5. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by BC1 View Post
    And they have to pass the bar exam and agree to a code of ethics. But that doesn't stop them from being stupid or slime.
    Not all of them, no. But those that are slime wouldn't be in ACLDN, which was my point. They're held to a higher standard to eliminate those in the "worst dumb-ass attorney on earth" category that you spoke of. ACLDN was founded by gun owners and self defense experts, several of whom also happened to be some of the best self defense attornies in the nation. It isn't an insurance company and it isn't run by insurance people. It's a 2nd amendment organization run by self defense experts who want to provide a valuable and needed service to people like you and I. I don't have a high opinion of lawyers in general either, but I'm not so blind as to believe that there are no good 2nd amendment lawyers out there. I'm also not so blind as to think that there aren't enough good lawyers out there to form a 2nd amendment focused attorney network. There are. Some of them post here and on other firearms related forums I visit.
    Posterity: you will never know how much it has cost my generation to preserve your freedom. I hope you will make good use of it.--- John Quincy Adams
    Condensed Guide To Ohio Concealed Carry Laws

  6. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bear1960 View Post
    I am new to this site, so please forgive me if I am asking an already hashed over topic. Here's my question - I have seen articles regarding the cost of your legal defense in case you have to use your gun in self defense. I can't imagine the legal fees that George Zimmerman must have incurred. There are a few legal defense insurance policies out there for this. Does anyone know anything about any of them? How do you know that they are legitimate and will be there if you need them? Any recommendations?
    I used to belong to USCCA, but let my membership lapse when they raised their membership and forced people to take the insurance. I was interested in the insurance but not very satisfied with the way it was presented. As I recall there were monetary limitations which I felt were NOT sufficient to cover attorney's fees if one had to fight a murder charge, for example. Check it out carefully before signing up because I also recall that they would only pay (to the limits you sign up for only) if you were found not guilty. This was a couple of years ago, though.
    Who are the militia? Are they not ourselves? Is it feared, then, that we shall turn our arms each man gainst his own bosom. Congress have no power to disarm the militia...Tenche Coxe, The Pennsylvania Gazette, Feb. 20, 1788.

  7. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by BC1 View Post
    Forget NY. On a clean shoot? No lawsuit because there is no tort. In order to sue you have to prove a tort against you, have actual damages and prove a "close causal connection" between the tort and the damages. And forget every other state. No person can absolve themselves of liability by living in a state with a more protective law. It's not that cut and dry.
    In SC it is very clear and has been backed up time and time again. We even have a law on the books that allows you, at night and night only, to effect a citizens arrest because you presume a felony is occurring and if that presumed felon decides to run away to avoid your arrest, you can use ANY MEANS INCLUDING DEATH to stop the fleeing felon--again--backed up in court cases. Do not agree but it is on the books. Bottom line--in SC if your a bad guy, you had better have some good life insurance if you want your survivors to have "something to fall back on" instead of your felonious behaviour.

  8. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelcarry View Post
    In SC it is very clear and has been backed up time and time again. We even have a law on the books that allows you, at night and night only, to effect a citizens arrest because you presume a felony is occurring and if that presumed felon decides to run away to avoid your arrest, you can use ANY MEANS INCLUDING DEATH to stop the fleeing felon--again--backed up in court cases. Do not agree but it is on the books. Bottom line--in SC if your a bad guy, you had better have some good life insurance if you want your survivors to have "something to fall back on" instead of your felonious behaviour.
    Boy you better be sure when you effect a citizens arrest. The potential for a lawsuit is significant. Especially if you use force.
    GOD, GUNS and GUITARS

  9. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by dcselby1 View Post
    I used to belong to USCCA, but let my membership lapse when they raised their membership and forced people to take the insurance. I was interested in the insurance but not very satisfied with the way it was presented. As I recall there were monetary limitations which I felt were NOT sufficient to cover attorney's fees if one had to fight a murder charge, for example. Check it out carefully before signing up because I also recall that they would only pay (to the limits you sign up for only) if you were found not guilty. This was a couple of years ago, though.
    That was basically what I was told. But as you mention, I don't know if it's still the case. I stay away from USCCA because of the fraudulent nature of it's founder and the manner in which he started the organization. That too may no longer be the case, but it left a bad taste in my mouth long ago that I still have today.
    Posterity: you will never know how much it has cost my generation to preserve your freedom. I hope you will make good use of it.--- John Quincy Adams
    Condensed Guide To Ohio Concealed Carry Laws

  10. #19

    self-defense liability insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhino View Post
    That was basically what I was told. But as you mention, I don't know if it's still the case. I stay away from USCCA because of the fraudulent nature of it's founder and the manner in which he started the organization. That too may no longer be the case, but it left a bad taste in my mouth long ago that I still have today.
    USCCA had a bad rep in its early years, and I didn't stick around to see if it would get better. ACLDN is a good choice. If you happen to be in Texas, Texas Law Shield, is a prepaid legal plan, not insurance. If you use your weapon, you call and they provide a gun-friendly lawyer for criminal and/or civil action. They also have some good publications. I read an article recently that said they have 70,000 members. The basic plan is around $125 a year. It's not insurance; it's a law firm. They offer concealed carry, home use of a gun, and combinations (you carry, your wife doesn't but might use a gun in home defense). On a Texas gun forum, I have read [unsubstantiated] reports of them handling some incidents.
    -
    There are no standards or regulating bodies in this area, so it is a crap shoot no matter what. The law firm that is Texas Law Shield is about 40 miles from my home, so if they were to jack me around, then, as we say in the south, "I know where they live." I have spoken with them on the phone a couple times, and I do have some confidence that they know what they're talking about. They offer multi-state coverage as well, which I have, but even it is limited to a few states.
    -
    Whether you have some legal coverage or not, I think the best advice I've heard was to assume you're going to be arrested if you use, or even brandish, your gun, so always use it as a last resort. Flight is preferable to fight. Be a good witness, not a hero. Protect you and your family, never a stranger. Don't count on being "judged by twelve" as always working in your favor. Look not to stand your ground, but rather for a back way out. In short, act like you would if you were not carrying a firearm.
    -

    Sent using Tapatalk...so please excuse the typos!

  11. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by BC1 View Post
    And they have to pass the bar exam and agree to a code of ethics. But that doesn't stop them from being stupid or slime.
    A point well proven by 0bama in IL. He fail to give his AKAs on his bar app.
    NRA Certified Pistol Instructor
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    Normal is an illusion. What is normal to the spider is chaos to the fly.

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