Clarification on when to shoot
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Thread: Clarification on when to shoot

  1. Clarification on when to shoot

    1 man was attacked by 4 others while leaving a bar. A Friend of the one man drew his firearm and wounded the 4 attackers. The shooter was arrested and charged with aggravates assault. I am waiting to see if the Assault charges stick as he claims self defense for him and his friend.

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  3. #2
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    Although self defense is allowed leaving a bar with a gun may cause a "bump in the road"

  4. It will be interesting to see the out come.

  5. #4
    Depends on state law.
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

  6. #5

    Issues

    Depends on three issues

    1. Disparity of force - 4 on 1 which became 2
    2. The ability to met force with equal (deadly) force in defense of another
    3. Need to retreat

    In Florida, the shoot would, at least initially, be righteous.
    Orlando, FL

  7. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stegahorse View Post
    1 man was attacked by 4 others while leaving a bar. A Friend of the one man drew his firearm and wounded the 4 attackers. The shooter was arrested and charged with aggravates assault. I am waiting to see if the Assault charges stick as he claims self defense for him and his friend.
    There are many variables this post does not address. Was there a disparity in size among the four individuals versus the other two individuals? In other words was it four folks from Lambda Lambda Lambda (see, Revenge of the Nerds) against two, let's say the Rock and HHH? Can either of the two claim that the incident was life-threatening to a jury with reasonable belief. What do the laws say in the state where this happened about people being in a bar while carrying a firearm? What does it say about carrying a firearm and drinking? Was the shooter drinking? How far into the attack did the shooting take place... in other words, was it a mugging where they tried to take the wallet and run, or was it a low-down dirty beating? Did the attack happen where the four had weapons? If they had weapons, what kind?

    Bringing a lethal weapon into a fight has to be justified. The justification comes down to whether or not there is reasonable belief that someone's life was on the line.
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote."
    ~ Benjamin Franklin (maybe)

  8. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolf_fire View Post
    There are many variables this post does not address. Was there a disparity in size among the four individuals versus the other two individuals? In other words was it four folks from Lambda Lambda Lambda (see, Revenge of the Nerds) against two, let's say the Rock and HHH? Can either of the two claim that the incident was life-threatening to a jury with reasonable belief. What do the laws say in the state where this happened about people being in a bar while carrying a firearm? What does it say about carrying a firearm and drinking? Was the shooter drinking? How far into the attack did the shooting take place... in other words, was it a mugging where they tried to take the wallet and run, or was it a low-down dirty beating? Did the attack happen where the four had weapons? If they had weapons, what kind?

    Bringing a lethal weapon into a fight has to be justified. The justification comes down to whether or not there is reasonable belief that someone's life was on the line.
    You have some good points (blue) and some that are off (red). I think the biggest would be whether or not the shooter had been drinking. The state is not listed in the OP, but I don't think any state says it is cool to be armed and intoxicated. Depending on the state laws, the rest is grey. Being required to justify that your life is in danger would not apply in most states. Justified self defense (or defense of others) usually uses "serious bodily injury" not "imminent death" as a basis for judgement.
    Chief

  9. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stegahorse View Post
    1 man was attacked by 4 others while leaving a bar. A Friend of the one man drew his firearm and wounded the 4 attackers. The shooter was arrested and charged with aggravates assault. I am waiting to see if the Assault charges stick as he claims self defense for him and his friend.
    You're a Firearms instructor and you don't know when to deploy lethal force or not?

  10. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by whodat2710 View Post
    You have some good points (blue) and some that are off (red). I think the biggest would be whether or not the shooter had been drinking. The state is not listed in the OP, but I don't think any state says it is cool to be armed and intoxicated. Depending on the state laws, the rest is grey. Being required to justify that your life is in danger would not apply in most states. Justified self defense (or defense of others) usually uses "serious bodily injury" not "imminent death" as a basis for judgement.
    I'll concede on the "serious bodily injury". You stated that much clearer than I did.

    However, in PA, you may carry and drink at the same time. Not sure about how many other states are the same, for I know in OH, you cannot even carry in a restaurant that serves alcohol. However, with that said, someone who was drinking and does shoot, will be looking down a prosecutor's line of questioning that will get very intense. That prosecutor will try to rip his judgment apart and state that the alcohol in his system played a role in bad judgment. This could discredit an otherwise credible justified shooting. Regardless of the law in the state, drinking while carrying is a rather stupid thing to do.

    Again, as you stated it comes down to the state the attack happened in, and we need many more details as to what happened.

    And to CharlesMorrison, excellent point. How is it a firearm's instructor does not know when to employ lethal force? I howled when I saw what you wrote and then shuddered a bit knowing there are firearms instructors who are ignorant of such things. I'm hoping the OP just wanted our thoughts, but now I'm curious.
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote."
    ~ Benjamin Franklin (maybe)

  11. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by CharlesMorrison View Post
    You're a Firearms instructor and you don't know when to deploy lethal force or not?
    Quote Originally Posted by wolf_fire View Post
    And to CharlesMorrison, excellent point. How is it a firearm's instructor does not know when to employ lethal force? I howled when I saw what you wrote and then shuddered a bit knowing there are firearms instructors who are ignorant of such things. I'm hoping the OP just wanted our thoughts, but now I'm curious.
    All I see on the OP's status-graphics is a "Site Supporter" emblem. I don't see an "Instructor" emblem and didn't notice him stating he was an instructor in anything he said.

    So is my 'puter messed up and not displaying the same graphics as y'all's, or are your guys' eye-sight going the way of rotary-dial phone?

    Blues

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