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Thread: New York State Gun Reatrictions

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by BC1 View Post
    No. You can't walk into a store in NY and even touch a gun. But I can walk-in and buy the gun. And I have the amendment before the waiting period is up so there's no more of a delay in me picking up my gun than you... three days. And I have the receipts to prove it. This is nearly it's the same in nearly every state. You can't walk-in being a non-resident and just walk away with a handgun. I can sell my handgun to another person privately as long as they register the gun. Open carry is another thing. And Viagra is safer than open carry (ooooohhh!)... unless you take nitrates for chest pain.
    .
    If you're gonna quote the law you have to get it right too. You ask "Why do I need my state's permission to carry a gun in my own home?" Well, actually that's not illegal. NY penal law exempts from prosecution persons using an illegal handgun within their own home for purposes of self defense. See the law below and People v. Raymond Zayas where he shot a LEO through the door with an illegal Glock as the officer was entering. The conviction was overturned on appeal because he was exempt. Now, in Florida, as in every state, you still need permission from the federal government in the form of BATFE Form 4473. Fail that BG check and no gun. So isn't this really just semantics? Doesn't everyone need permission to buy a gun at any retail outlet?
    .
    NYS PL 265.03 - Criminal Possession of a Weapon - C felony
    3. (3) such person possesses any loaded firearm. Such possession shall not, except as provided in subdivision one or seven of section 265.02 of this article, constitute a violation of this subdivision if such possession takes place in such person's home or place of business.
    .
    But AVP isn't talking about that, he's saying that those with a CCW permit need permission to buy a gun and it's just not so. Wanting it to be true isn't enough; it has to actually be true.
    I am talking about a resident of your state without a permit. Not me as a resident of Florida or Ohio. Can a resident of NY walk in, pay for the gun, and after the three day wait, walk out with it. And never need to register it with your state? If at any point it does have to be, it is seeking permission from your state. Your section 265.03 does place a restriction on you and you do have to have the permit if loaded. You can't have one loaded in your vehicle without your state's permission. Also not in your quoted section that just having 5 firearms in your possession is a felony without your state's permission.

    A person is guilty of criminal possession of a weapon in the second
    degree when:
    (1) with intent to use the same unlawfully against another, such
    person:
    (a) possesses a machine-gun; or
    (b) possesses a loaded firearm; or
    (c) possesses a disguised gun; or
    (2) such person possesses five or more firearms; or
    (3) such person possesses any loaded firearm. Such possession shall
    not, except as provided in subdivision one or seven of section 265.02 of
    this article, constitute a violation of this subdivision if such
    possession takes place in such person's home or place of business.
    Criminal possession of a weapon in the second degree is a class C
    felony.
    Now we go to .02 and find:
    265.02 Criminal possession of a weapon in the third degree.
    A person is guilty of criminal possession of a weapon in the third
    degree when:
    (1) Such person commits the crime of criminal possession of a weapon
    in the fourth degree as defined in subdivision one, two, three or five
    of section 265.01, and has been previously convicted of any crime; or
    (2) Such person possesses any explosive or incendiary bomb, bombshell,
    firearm silencer, machine-gun or any other firearm or weapon simulating
    a machine-gun and which is adaptable for such use; or
    (3) Such person knowingly possesses a machine-gun, firearm, rifle or
    shotgun which has been defaced for the purpose of concealment or
    prevention of the detection of a crime or misrepresenting the identity
    of such machine-gun, firearm, rifle or shotgun; or
    (5) (i) Such person possesses three or more firearms; or (ii) such
    person possesses a firearm and has been previously convicted of a felony
    or a class A misdemeanor defined in this chapter within the five years
    immediately preceding the commission of the offense and such possession
    did not take place in the person's home or place of business; or
    (6) Such person knowingly possesses any disguised gun; or
    ...............
    Criminal possession of a weapon in the third degree is a class D
    felony.
    So now just buying three firearms and taking them home is a felony in your state. If you didn't have a permit. Loaded or unloaded. And if you go to 265.01:
    265.01 Criminal possession of a weapon in the fourth degree.
    A person is guilty of criminal possession of a weapon in the fourth
    degree when:
    (1) He or she possesses any firearm, electronic dart gun, electronic
    stun gun, gravity knife, switchblade knife, pilum ballistic knife, metal
    knuckle knife, cane sword, billy, blackjack, bludgeon, plastic knuckles,
    metal knuckles, chuka stick, sand bag, sandclub, wrist-brace type
    slingshot or slungshot, shirken or "Kung Fu star"; or
    (2) He possesses any dagger, dangerous knife, dirk, razor, stiletto,
    imitation pistol, or any other dangerous or deadly instrument or weapon
    with intent to use the same unlawfully against another; or
    (3); or

    (4) He possesses a rifle, shotgun, antique firearm, black powder
    rifle, black powder shotgun, or any muzzle-loading firearm, and has been
    convicted of a felony or serious offense; or
    (5) He possesses any dangerous or deadly weapon and is not a citizen
    of the United States; or
    (6) He is a person who has been certified not suitable to possess a
    rifle or shotgun, as defined in subdivision sixteen of section 265.00,
    and refuses to yield possession of such rifle or shotgun upon the demand
    of a police officer. Whenever a person is certified not suitable to
    possess a rifle or shotgun, a member of the police department to which
    such certification is made, or of the state police, shall forthwith
    seize any rifle or shotgun possessed by such person. A rifle or shotgun
    seized as herein provided shall not be destroyed, but shall be delivered
    to the headquarters of such police department, or state police, and
    there retained until the aforesaid certificate has been rescinded by the
    director or physician in charge, or other disposition of such rifle or
    shotgun has been ordered or authorized by a court of competent
    jurisdiction.
    (7) He knowingly possesses a bullet containing an explosive substance
    designed to detonate upon impact.
    (8) He possesses any armor piercing ammunition with intent to use the
    same unlawfully against another.
    Criminal possession of a weapon in the fourth degree is a class A
    misdemeanor.
    Just having the firearm, period, is a crime in your state without the permit. Loaded, Unloaded, at home, in your business, in your car/truck. Sure does seem like it is a crime in your state to own any firearm that you haven't gotten a permit for. All the cop has to do is know the correct statute and just walking out of the store with a firearm means you have committed a crime if you don't have the permit.

    Now what does NY define as loaded? It sure isn't what anyone with common or ordinary sense would think. Nope, it doesn't have to have ammo in the gun. Nor does it even have to have it in a magazine. Just having the ammo with you makes it a loaded firearm.
    From 265.00:
    15. "Loaded firearm" means any firearm loaded with ammunition or any
    firearm which is possessed by one who, at the same time, possesses a
    quantity of ammunition which may be used to discharge such firearm.
    Firearm is defined as any gun with under a 18" barrel or 16" if a rifle other than an antique firearm. Again a screwed up definition that does not match Federal Law.
    3. "Firearm" means (a) any pistol or revolver; or (b) a shotgun having
    one or more barrels less than eighteen inches in length; or (c) a rifle
    having one or more barrels less than sixteen inches in length; or (d)
    any weapon made from a shotgun or rifle whether by alteration,
    modification, or otherwise if such weapon as altered, modified, or
    otherwise has an overall length of less than twenty-six inches; or (e)
    an assault weapon. For the purpose of this subdivision the length of the
    barrel on a shotgun or rifle shall be determined by measuring the
    distance between the muzzle and the face of the bolt, breech, or
    breechlock when closed and when the shotgun or rifle is cocked; the
    overall length of a weapon made from a shotgun or rifle is the distance
    between the extreme ends of the weapon measured along a line parallel to
    the center line of the bore. Firearm does not include an antique
    firearm.
    And as for me personally touching the gun, yes I could. I carry the needed papers to touch and examine the gun, pay for it, and have it shipped to our store. The 4473 would be taken care of when I picked it up down here. Here in Florida, even if you are an out of state person, nothing prevents you from looking at or handling the gun unless you fail to meet the 4473 requirements. Then it would be on that non-resident felon's/mental case's/underage person's neck.
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  3. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by apvbguy View Post
    You are talking about permits, I am talking about actually purchasing a handgun, you can go ask any resident of NYC, or other nearby counties if they can walk into a gun shop and purchase a handgun without having a purchase order, the answer is that they cannot walk into a gun shop and walk out with a handgun unless they first go visit barney and plead for permission to buy a gun.
    Is that before or after you ask permission from the feds? It's all semantics. We all end-up at the mercy of the government when buying the gun.
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  4. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by S&W645 View Post
    I am talking about a resident of your state without a permit. Not me as a resident of Florida or Ohio. Can a resident of NY walk in, pay for the gun, and after the three day wait, walk out with it. And never need to register it with your state? If at any point it does have to be, it is seeking permission from your state. Your section 265.03 does place a restriction on you and you do have to have the permit if loaded. You can't have one loaded in your vehicle without your state's permission. Also not in your quoted section that just having 5 firearms in your possession is a felony without your state's permission.

    Now we go to .02 and find: So now just buying three firearms and taking them home is a felony in your state. If you didn't have a permit. Loaded or unloaded. And if you go to 265.01: Just having the firearm, period, is a crime in your state without the permit. Loaded, Unloaded, at home, in your business, in your car/truck. Sure does seem like it is a crime in your state to own any firearm that you haven't gotten a permit for. All the cop has to do is know the correct statute and just walking out of the store with a firearm means you have committed a crime if you don't have the permit.

    Now what does NY define as loaded? It sure isn't what anyone with common or ordinary sense would think. Nope, it doesn't have to have ammo in the gun. Nor does it even have to have it in a magazine. Just having the ammo with you makes it a loaded firearm.
    From 265.00: Firearm is defined as any gun with under a 18" barrel or 16" if a rifle other than an antique firearm. Again a screwed up definition that does not match Federal Law.

    And as for me personally touching the gun, yes I could. I carry the needed papers to touch and examine the gun, pay for it, and have it shipped to our store. The 4473 would be taken care of when I picked it up down here. Here in Florida, even if you are an out of state person, nothing prevents you from looking at or handling the gun unless you fail to meet the 4473 requirements. Then it would be on that non-resident felon's/mental case's/underage person's neck.
    Most stores in NYS will not let you handle the gun.
    .
    Now go read 265.20 and you'll see that legal ownership is exempt from criminal possession. Read it and you'll see that you may purchase and possess at all times any number of firearms. 265.20 exempts lawful gun owners (handguns, rifles, shotguns, etc.) from prosecution. If you're correct then explain to me how I have 19 handguns, all registered. How do I have 26 long guns? That provision is an attempt to keep the animals from trafficking. It's not as easy as just reading one section. You need to read Article 265 in it's entirety. 265 makes possession of certain weapons illegal and then exempts the owner from criminal charges in 265.20.
    .
    The law is not written for just handguns, it's written for all guns. Can't have a loaded shotgun in the car (in many states) but you are exempt when carrying a handgun with a CCW permit. Now, in the strict terms you guys argue, handgun ownership requires a permit n NYS. And it requires permission from the feds in FL and everywhere else. And if Hillary gets elected it will get worse. If you want to argue bad handgun laws some of you guys need to look at your own states. How many gun friendly states impose draconian restrictions for things like a parade on a public street? How many are currently dealing with restaurant carry? How many are dealing with church restrictions? How many states won't allow possession on public transportation, like a bus? Then these hacks start hammering NYS law where these restrictions don't exist. Restricting you from carrying in certain locations is no different than what Bloomy is doing in NYC. IT IS THE WORST KIND OF GUN CONTROL to remove your rights just because you're ordering a burger. While it might take a few days to get a new gun you can carry the damn thing without special considerations or notifying LEO every time you're stopped. It's semantics. We're all f---ed. There are no exceptions as long as the feds are involved and states restrict when and where. And Hilary is gonna make it much worse for all of you. At some point in the future gun owners will ultimately lose because too many bugs are able to get a gun. And how is it that all these law-abiding citizens that don't want any form of gun control lose their guns? Every gun in America started-out legal. Who do I see about that? I like registration. It let's me throw you in jail when your gun finds it's way to the street.
    .
    But, once again, this is about AVP claiming you can't register multiple firearms and that the counties must give your permission to buy a gun. That's hogwash. I'll be going out in a little while. I'll put that heater in my pocket and go about my day. I have some banking to do, I have to drop some donations of at the church and I'm meeting a friend for lunch. I'll do all of this without violating any laws. And if stopped by poice I don't have to tell them s--t.
    GOD, GUNS and GUITARS

  5. #24
    How is permission from the Feds required to own a handgun? It is perfectly legal in Utah to buy a pistol from any Tom **** or Harry that wants to meet me somewhere and take my cash. No permit, permission or paperwork required.

    Ya'll have some pretty messed up laws. Can't even touch a gun in a gun store If you don't have paperwork to buy? Are you allowed to kiss your girlfriend before you marry her?

    BC1 I understand you really like your state but it is a tough arguement to say most other states are more restrictive.

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  6. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by BC1 View Post
    Is that before or after you ask permission from the feds? It's all semantics. We all end-up at the mercy of the government when buying the gun.
    permission from the feds? how dense can you be??? are being an obtuse troll for a reason or are you just a moron?
    in NYC and the surrounding counties you cannot walk into a shop plunk down X amount of dollars and then have the guy phone the feds for your status unless you have a PURCHASE ORDER, or as I call it A PERMISSION SLIP from the licensing gang at the local PD. you keep talking in circles, I lived in NYC, I had a NYC permit I had to jump through the government hoops in order to put additional guns onto my permit and this was 30 years ago and nothing has changed since.
    I have no clue what they do up there in podunk, yes podunk or BFE if you like, in NYC and the surrounding counties which are part of NY STATE, no permission slips means no hand guns for you

  7. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by BC1 View Post
    Most stores in NYS will not let you handle the gun.
    unless you have that PERMISSION SLIP, until you prove me wrong, you are just another know it all/know nothing internet knucklehead.
    Last time I don't know what happens in the backwoods areas of NY STATE but in NYC and the surrounding counties you need a permission slip to buy a handgun and you will not be issued multiple PERMISSION slips.

  8. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by BC1 View Post
    Most stores in NYS will not let you handle the gun.
    .
    Now go read 265.20 and you'll see that legal ownership is exempt from criminal possession. Read it and you'll see that you may purchase and possess at all times any number of firearms. 265.20 exempts lawful gun owners (handguns, rifles, shotguns, etc.) from prosecution. If you're correct then explain to me how I have 19 handguns, all registered. How do I have 26 long guns? That provision is an attempt to keep the animals from trafficking. It's not as easy as just reading one section. You need to read Article 265 in it's entirety. 265 makes possession of certain weapons illegal and then exempts the owner from criminal charges in 265.20.
    .
    The law is not written for just handguns, it's written for all guns. Can't have a loaded shotgun in the car (in many states) but you are exempt when carrying a handgun with a CCW permit. Now, in the strict terms you guys argue, handgun ownership requires a permit n NYS. And it requires permission from the feds in FL and everywhere else. And if Hillary gets elected it will get worse. If you want to argue bad handgun laws some of you guys need to look at your own states. How many gun friendly states impose draconian restrictions for things like a parade on a public street? How many are currently dealing with restaurant carry? How many are dealing with church restrictions? How many states won't allow possession on public transportation, like a bus? Then these hacks start hammering NYS law where these restrictions don't exist. Restricting you from carrying in certain locations is no different than what Bloomy is doing in NYC. IT IS THE WORST KIND OF GUN CONTROL to remove your rights just because you're ordering a burger. While it might take a few days to get a new gun you can carry the damn thing without special considerations or notifying LEO every time you're stopped. It's semantics. We're all f---ed. There are no exceptions as long as the feds are involved and states restrict when and where. And Hilary is gonna make it much worse for all of you. At some point in the future gun owners will ultimately lose because too many bugs are able to get a gun. And how is it that all these law-abiding citizens that don't want any form of gun control lose their guns? Every gun in America started-out legal. Who do I see about that? I like registration. It let's me throw you in jail when your gun finds it's way to the street.
    .
    But, once again, this is about AVP claiming you can't register multiple firearms and that the counties must give your permission to buy a gun. That's hogwash. I'll be going out in a little while. I'll put that heater in my pocket and go about my day. I have some banking to do, I have to drop some donations of at the church and I'm meeting a friend for lunch. I'll do all of this without violating any laws. And if stopped by poice I don't have to tell them s--t.
    You can own them because you have a permit. And that is the only reason. Your county's/city's permission was granted. 265.20
    3. Possession of a pistol or revolver by a person to whom a license
    therefor has been issued as provided under section 400.00 or 400.01 of
    this chapter; provided, that such a license shall not preclude a
    conviction for the offense defined in subdivision three of section
    265.01 of this article.
    I'll give you an example of one county that says you must have a permit to purchase in NY. Not even NYC but on the opposite side of the state of NY from NYC. Erie County to be specific.
    When a gun is purchased from a dealer, the dealer receipt is required. The receipt must show the buyer's name, address, permit number, and the make, model, caliber action and serial number of the gun. The dealer's name, address, New York State dealer number and county the dealership is in must also appear on the receipt. Once the handgun is registered at our department, a purchase coupon will then be given to the buyer, to allow him/her to pick up the weapon from the dealer.
    Yep can't get the gun without a permit. How to Apply for a Pistol Permit | Erie County Clerk's Office

    Want another County? Here's Monroe County's sample Bill of Sale form, http://www.monroecounty.gov/Image/Bill%20of%20Sale.pdf, and it requires permit numbers. Florida does not require that as Florida does not require a permit just to own. NY does and requires a NICS check too from an FFL. No NICS check required on individual to individual sales so where are the Feds involved here in Florida. In NY, the permit is always involved. And it is a may issue instead of a shall issue permit. Even for having the gun in your home or business.

    And I'd place a bet that I can examine/handle a handgun in the gun shop.

    Bank carry, do it all the time. Restaurant carry, all the time. Parade side, no problem. Gov't property is the restricted one along with gov't meetings.

    But we will agree on Billary. Worst nightmare would be her and Bloomy on the same ticket getting elected.

    If stopped by the police, if asked, you do have to inform. Same as here. And even worse NYC has stop and frisk even though the courts have said that is illegal.
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  9. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warbirds View Post
    How is permission from the Feds required to own a handgun? It is perfectly legal in Utah to buy a pistol from any Tom **** or Harry that wants to meet me somewhere and take my cash. No permit, permission or paperwork required.

    Ya'll have some pretty messed up laws. Can't even touch a gun in a gun store If you don't have paperwork to buy? Are you allowed to kiss your girlfriend before you marry her?

    BC1 I understand you really like your state but it is a tough arguement to say most other states are more restrictive.

    Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk 2
    I said retail, not private sales. When people can move about freely without restrictions on a bank, church, parade, restaurant, bus, park, government building, car, glove box, etc. they can argue. But these are the very places you need the gun. These are all places where massacres have occurred. If the gun must be in the car at dinner or a parade, the second amendment as been completely removed. People on this site talk about how easy it s to get a gun. That doesn't comfort me. And, as an unchambered gun is a club, a gun in the car is useless. A government has denied the right to self defense.
    .
    Here's what I can tell you about you about NYS... I get up, put my gun in my pocket and head out for the day. Other than a school or courtroom there are no restrictions on where I go or what I do. That's it. So, for someone to tell me the laws are restrictive while their gun is in the car at church or a parade leaves me scratching my head about what they think gun control means.
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  10. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by apvbguy View Post
    unless you have that PERMISSION SLIP, until you prove me wrong, you are just another know it all/know nothing internet knucklehead.
    Last time I don't know what happens in the backwoods areas of NY STATE but in NYC and the surrounding counties you need a permission slip to buy a handgun and you will not be issued multiple PERMISSION slips.
    AVP, I'm no knucklehead and I'm far from dense. And, as I'm seeing here, you're being obtuse. I hold two degrees from an Ivy League college, ran my own business in NYC for 20 years and retired at 45. So let's not get insulting.
    .
    You must now site the law to substantiate your claim or... you lose. Period.
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  11. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by S&W645 View Post
    You can own them because you have a permit. And that is the only reason. Your county's/city's permission was granted. 265.20

    I'll give you an example of one county that says you must have a permit to purchase in NY. Not even NYC but on the opposite side of the state of NY from NYC. Erie County to be specific. Yep can't get the gun without a permit. How to Apply for a Pistol Permit | Erie County Clerk's Office

    Want another County? Here's Monroe County's sample Bill of Sale form, http://www.monroecounty.gov/Image/Bill%20of%20Sale.pdf, and it requires permit numbers. Florida does not require that as Florida does not require a permit just to own. NY does and requires a NICS check too from an FFL. No NICS check required on individual to individual sales so where are the Feds involved here in Florida. In NY, the permit is always involved. And it is a may issue instead of a shall issue permit. Even for having the gun in your home or business.

    And I'd place a bet that I can examine/handle a handgun in the gun shop.

    Bank carry, do it all the time. Restaurant carry, all the time. Parade side, no problem. Gov't property is the restricted one along with gov't meetings.

    But we will agree on Billary. Worst nightmare would be her and Bloomy on the same ticket getting elected.

    If stopped by the police, if asked, you do have to inform. Same as here. And even worse NYC has stop and frisk even though the courts have said that is illegal.
    The reason you must inform when asked is because you can't lie to a LEO. That qualifies as obstruction. Same as giving a false name. It has nothing to do with gun laws. No ask, no tell. There's a million threads on ere about the topic.
    .
    Your statement includes "The Erie County Clerk's Office processes Pistol Permits for Erie County residents under terms of appropriate New York State laws. Following the completion of an application and criminal background checks, final approval or denial of a permit is the decision of an Erie County Court Judge or New York State Supreme Court Justice." So examine FL law regarding application for a CCW (790.06). Same damn law. Almost word for word to NYS PL 400. You need approval to carry concealed in FL. The application can be denied based on the exact same reasons as NYS. NY may not deny a permit without cause as defined in A400. Denials may not be "arbitrary or capricious."
    .
    You can't cite "how to get a permit in Erie County." You must cite state law. Every county must follow the exact same law. And there is nothing in that law to prohibit multiple firearm purchases in ANY county. as AVP continue to claim.
    .
    Also, people have to stop mixing NYS and NYC. Bloomy has no power here.
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