Gander Mountain the home of the idiots - Page 3
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Thread: Gander Mountain the home of the idiots

  1. Quote Originally Posted by JimTh View Post
    Federal law prohibits anyone that is an FFL from selling pistol ammunition to anyone not 21 years old. Please go reread your federal code and post your link. Better yet just go swab a few decks. You are the forums sexual intellectual...the f'in know it all and you do not, swabby. By the way 7-11 does not sell ammunition. Anybody that sells ammunition must obey federal code unless you are a private seller. Go look it up and get yourself a lawyer to help you formulate opinions dealing with firearm laws. Maybe you go to odd ball walmarts to buy your high water pants a little to small...walmarts in Virginia are FFL's.
    Really? How about if you stop ranting and raving and name calling and post the Federal Code that requires a dealer in ammunition that does not deal in firearms to have an FFL? An FFL is required to manufacture ammunition, not to be a dealer in ammunition. As long as a store does not sell firearms, they do not require an FFL, and it would be perfectly legal for them to sell handgun ammunition to an 18 year old. Not every Wal Mart in Virginia has an FFL and not every store in Virginia that sells ammunition has an FFL (unless they also sell firearms, then they would be required to have an FFL). Have a wonderful day, and try to be a better example for your daughter. Hopefully she doesn't suffer from the same rage problems that you do.

    BTW: I'll do your research for you:
    http://www.atf.gov/files/publication...f-p-5300-4.pdf

    Page 182:
    "(F11) Is a license required to engage
    in the business of selling
    small arms ammunition?

    No. A license is not required for a
    dealer in ammunition only, but a
    manufacturer or an importer of ammunition
    must be licensed.
    [18 U.S.C. 922 (a)(1)(B)]"
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

  2.   
  3. #22
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    Feb 2010
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    As someone who sells guns for an FFL, the part of the story that bothers me the most is the salesperson's claim that if you mention your daughter again he won't do business with you. Translation: "I know you're breaking the law (you weren't but in his mind you were) but I'll look the other way as long as you shut up about it".

    In sales I frequently encounter people who are buying guns for other people. I'll casually inquire about the other person. Family member = OK, but girlfriend/boyfriend, buddy, etc. is a big no-no. I hate to have to say "Sorry but I can't sell you this gun" but it does happen fairly often. I even had to tell it to a police officer who was buying a pistol for a friend just so his friend wouldn't have to wait the "cooldown" period mandated by florida law for non-CCW holders.

    The Gander salesperson should have 1.) known the law and 2.) not chosen to look the other way if he felt you were breaking the law.
    (Insert random tough-guy quote here)
    "See my gun?? Aren't you impressed?" - Anonymous sheepdog
    The hardware is the same, but the software is vastly different.

  4. #23
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    Nov 2010
    Location
    SE FL and SE OH
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    Quote Originally Posted by B2Tall View Post
    As someone who sells guns for an FFL, the part of the story that bothers me the most is the salesperson's claim that if you mention your daughter again he won't do business with you. Translation: "I know you're breaking the law (you weren't but in his mind you were) but I'll look the other way as long as you shut up about it".

    In sales I frequently encounter people who are buying guns for other people. I'll casually inquire about the other person. Family member = OK, but girlfriend/boyfriend, buddy, etc. is a big no-no. I hate to have to say "Sorry but I can't sell you this gun" but it does happen fairly often. I even had to tell it to a police officer who was buying a pistol for a friend just so his friend wouldn't have to wait the "cooldown" period mandated by florida law for non-CCW holders.

    The Gander salesperson should have 1.) known the law and 2.) not chosen to look the other way if he felt you were breaking the law.
    Partly right and partly wrong.

    Section A - Must Be Completed Personally By Transferee (Buyer)

    11. Answer questions 11.a.
    (see exceptions)
    through 11.l. and 12
    (if applicable)
    by checking or marking
    “yes” or “no”
    in the boxes to the right of the questions.

    a. Are you the actual transferee/buyer of the firearm(s) listed on this form?
    Warning: You are not the actual buyer if you are
    acquiring the firearm(s) on behalf of another person. If you are not the actual buyer, the dealer cannot transfer the firearm(
    s)
    to you.
    (See Instructions for Question 11.a.) Exception:
    If you are picking up a repaired firearm(s)
    for another person, you are
    not
    required to answer 11.a. and may proceed to question 11.b
    You can buy a gift gun for anyone who can legally own it. The cop in your case would be violating the law though as that is a strawman purchase.
    NRA Certified Pistol Instructor
    NRA Certified RSO
    Normal is an illusion. What is normal to the spider is chaos to the fly.

  5. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by S&W645 View Post
    Partly right and partly wrong.

    You can buy a gift gun for anyone who can legally own it. The cop in your case would be violating the law though as that is a strawman purchase.
    Your example doesn't seem to back up your assertaion. It clearly states that the dealer cannot transfer the firearm to you if you are buying it for another person. ATF's website clearly states that family members are exempt from this provided they are not prohibited from owning a firearm.

    ATF doesn't care who pays for the firearm, but, other than for family members, the person filling out the paperwork must be the "owner" of the gun. In other words, I can buy a gun for my girlfriend but she has to fill out the paperwork and undergo the background check.
    (Insert random tough-guy quote here)
    "See my gun?? Aren't you impressed?" - Anonymous sheepdog
    The hardware is the same, but the software is vastly different.

  6. #25
    ezkl2230 Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by B2Tall View Post
    As someone who sells guns for an FFL, the part of the story that bothers me the most is the salesperson's claim that if you mention your daughter again he won't do business with you. Translation: "I know you're breaking the law (you weren't but in his mind you were) but I'll look the other way as long as you shut up about it".

    In sales I frequently encounter people who are buying guns for other people. I'll casually inquire about the other person. Family member = OK, but girlfriend/boyfriend, buddy, etc. is a big no-no. I hate to have to say "Sorry but I can't sell you this gun" but it does happen fairly often. I even had to tell it to a police officer who was buying a pistol for a friend just so his friend wouldn't have to wait the "cooldown" period mandated by florida law for non-CCW holders.

    The Gander salesperson should have 1.) known the law and 2.) not chosen to look the other way if he felt you were breaking the law.
    And family member is OK only as long as they are legally able to possess it. I also sell firearms for a national chain, and I occasionally encounter people trying to purchase a firearm for their "brother who can't pass the background themselves, so I'm going to buy it for them."

    Uh, no you're not!



    And actually, unless your individual state prohibits the gifting of firearms to "girlfriend/boyfriend, buddy, etc.," ATF regs do not. Gifting a firearm is a transfer, the same as purchasing or selling. This is taken directly from ATF brochure ATF P 5300.21 (ATF Best Practices: Transfers of Firearms by Private Sellers), effective January 2013:

    TRANSFERS OF FIREARMS BY PRIVATE SELLERS

     An unlicensed individual may transfer a firearm to another unlicensed individual residing in the same State, provided that he or she has no reason to believe the buyer is prohibited by law from possessing firearms.

    For a list of categories prohibiting a person from possessing a firearm, please refer to 18 U.S.C. 922(g) and (n) Firearms - Frequently Asked Questions - Unlicensed Persons | ATF.

     An unlicensed individual is prohibited from directly transferring a firearm to a person residing in another State.

    Regardless of the purpose of the transfer (e.g. gift, trade, loan, sale, ownership, etc.), this restriction applies to all types of firearms.
    You just have to insure, to the best of your ability, that the purchase of the firearm for another individual is not a straw purchase (bought on behalf of another individual who cannot legally own the firearm). The best practice in such instances is to either purchase a gift card for the intended recipient of the gift so that they can make the purchase themselves, or to get the recipient into the store so that a BC can be run, even if another person is actually paying for the firearm.

    BTW, just to be ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN that my understanding of this ATF brochure is correct, I have also emailed this question to the ATF. I will provide their response as soon as I receive it from them.

  7. Quote Originally Posted by B2Tall View Post
    Your example doesn't seem to back up your assertaion. It clearly states that the dealer cannot transfer the firearm to you if you are buying it for another person. ATF's website clearly states that family members are exempt from this provided they are not prohibited from owning a firearm.

    ATF doesn't care who pays for the firearm, but, other than for family members, the person filling out the paperwork must be the "owner" of the gun. In other words, I can buy a gun for my girlfriend but she has to fill out the paperwork and undergo the background check.
    You can buy a gun for your girlfriend AS A GIFT. You are the purchaser, you fill out the form, you get the background check done on you. You give the gift of the gun to your girlfriend with no compensation received in return for it. If your girlfriend is not a prohibited person, no law is violated.

    I would love to see a link to the portion of the ATF website that says that there are exemptions for family members. I have a link for you:
    http://www.atf.gov/files/publication...f-p-5300-4.pdf

    Page 165:
    "An example of an illegal straw purchase
    is as follows: Mr. Smith asks Mr.
    Jones to purchase a firearm for Mr.
    Smith. Mr. Smith gives Mr. Jones the
    money for the firearm. If Mr. Jones fills
    out Form 4473, he violates the law by
    falsely stating that he is the actual buyer
    of the firearm. Mr. Smith also violates
    the law because he has unlawfully aided
    and abetted or caused the making of
    false statements on the form.

    Where a person purchases a firearm
    with the intent of making a gift of the
    firearm to another person, the person
    making the purchase is indeed the true
    purchaser. There is no straw purchaser
    in these instances. In the above example,
    if Mr. Jones had bought a firearm
    with his own money to give to Mr. Smith
    as a birthday present, Mr. Jones could
    lawfully have completed Form 4473."

    So, Mr. B2Tall, care to show us in the second paragraph straight out of the ATF manual where it states that Mr. Jones and Mr. Smith must be related to each other?

    Quote Originally Posted by B2Tall View Post
    As someone who sells guns for an FFL
    Once again, one of the top three sources of legal misinformation regarding firearms laws proves themselves to be gun shop employees.

    Quote Originally Posted by ezkl2230 View Post
    You just have to insure, to the best of your ability, that the purchase of the firearm for another individual is not a straw purchase (bought on behalf of another individual who cannot legally own the firearm).
    You are confusing and/or mixing a "straw purchase" with providing a firearm to a prohibited person. They are two completely seperate offenses that are not related to one another, although the "straw purchase" can be the means used to provide a prohibited person with a firearm.

    A "straw purchase" occurs when you purchase a firearm from a dealer with another person's money with the intent to provide that firearm that you purchased to the person who gave you the money. PERIOD. It doesn't matter if the person who gives you the money is your siamese twin or your next door neighbor who has a spotlessly clean record and could just as easily walked in and passed NICS and purchased the gun for themselves. It is still a "straw purchase" when Mr. Smith gives Mr. Jones the money to buy a firearm and Mr. Jones then gives that firearm to Mr. Smith. PERIOD.

    If the recipient of the firearm is a prohibited person, a completely 100% seperate crime is committed, violating a completely seperate section of 18 USC 922 - providing a firearm to a prohibited person. This second crime can occur regardless of if any money changes hands or not.
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

  8. #27
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    Aug 2013
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    Living rent free in Bluesstringer's head apparently
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    I might be wrong but I thought a straw sale was one where I'm trying to circumvent the system in order to obtain a gun for someone who can't legally own one.

    Why couldn't a pruchase a gun as a gift for my girlfriend as long as I'm straight up about the fact that it's a gift and she isn't prohibited from owning a firearm?

  9. #28
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    Jul 2012
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    Mabelvale, Arkansas
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    I don't go in Gander Mountain anymore. They never have enough staff working the gun counter anytime during the day or evening. I've had to wait over an hour to buy a holster I needed for use during the weekend that no one else had in stock. It got to the point I would call to see how many people were working the firearms counter before I would drive the 20 miles!

  10. Quote Originally Posted by Cypher View Post
    I might be wrong but I thought a straw sale was one where I'm trying to circumvent the system in order to obtain a gun for someone who can't legally own one.
    A straw sale is when you are trying to circumvent the system in order to obtain a gun for someone else by using their money to purchase it with for them. PERIOD. It does not matter if they can legally own that firearm or not, nor does it matter if they are family or not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cypher View Post
    Why couldn't a pruchase a gun as a gift for my girlfriend as long as I'm straight up about the fact that it's a gift and she isn't prohibited from owning a firearm?
    You don't have to be straight up about anything. It is perfectly legal at the Federal level for you to purchase a gun as a gift for your girlfriend. B2Tall was just plain wrong. Now...there might be a state law that would make it illegal in your state. I've walked into a gun shop with my wife who picked out the gun she wanted and I purchased it for her as a gift. Perfectly legal, and would have been legal if she was my girlfriend and not my wife (in my state) - although that probably would upset my wife.
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

  11. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    A straw sale is when you are trying to circumvent the system in order to obtain a gun for someone else by using their money to purchase it with for them. PERIOD. It does not matter if they can legally own that firearm or not, nor does it matter if they are family or not.
    You don't have to be straight up about anything. It is perfectly legal at the Federal level for you to purchase a gun as a gift for your girlfriend. B2Tall was just plain wrong. Now...there might be a state law that would make it illegal in your state. I've walked into a gun shop with my wife who picked out the gun she wanted and I purchased it for her as a gift. Perfectly legal, and would have been legal if she was my girlfriend and not my wife (in my state) - although that probably would upset my wife.
    Man, I sure hope you're a firearm lawyer or else all this knowledge and energy typing endless response posts is going to waste arguing with internet dweebs.
    And before anyone take offense at being called an "internet dweeb" I proudly count myself as one.
    "It is not malicious acts that will do us in but the appalling silence and indifference of good people. All that is needed for evil to run rampant is for good women and men to do nothing." -MLK Jr Current Carry: Ruger SR40c

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