Detroit to continue stop and frisk policy....
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 23

Thread: Detroit to continue stop and frisk policy....

  1. #1
    ezkl2230 Guest

    Detroit to continue stop and frisk policy....

    Despite a judge ruling NYC's random stop and frisk policy unconstitutional, Detroit, which uses the same blueprint, will continue the practice -- one that most of us in Michigan outside of Detroit were unaware of. According to the police chief,

    Based on reasonable suspicion, the Detroit Police Department is already a stop-and-frisk policing agency. Detroit's population is mostly African American, so it stands to reason that a high number of African Americans will be stopped, based on reasonable suspicion. This is not racial profiling, just officers doing good constitutional police work.
    Constitutional police work. Let's consider what constitutes "Constitutional."

    The Fourth Amendment says,

    The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
    Probable cause is only part of the equation.

    A reasonable search of one's person includes ALL of the following:

    1. Probable cause. This is different than "reasonable suspicion," to which the Constitution NEVER REFERS. According to FreeLex, the online legal dictionary,

    "Probable cause" means that the officer must possess sufficiently trustworthy facts to believe that a crime has been committed. In some cases, an officer may need only a reasonable suspicion of criminal activity to conduct a limited search. Reasonable suspicion means that the officer has sufficient knowledge to believe that criminal activity is at hand. This level of knowledge is less than that of probable cause, so reasonable suspicion is usually used to justify a brief frisk in a public area or a traffic stop at roadside. To possess either probable cause or reasonable suspicion, an officer must be able to cite specific articulable facts to warrant the intrusion.
    Just because "reasonable suspicion" is used to justify a search does not mean that it rises to the level demanded in the Fourth Amendment.

    2. Oath or affirmation. While the Detroit chief says that all of these searches are documented, at no point is an oath or affirmation required of the officer conducting the search.

    3. Specific details about what or whom is to be searched/seized. A warrantless stop and frisk doesn't require this.

    4. A WARRANT. These are warrantless searches, requiring none of the Constitutionally-mandated pre-requisites seen above.

    According to the Constitution, then, such stop and frisk procedures constitute unreasonable search and seizure.

  2.   
  3. #2
    ezkl2230 Guest
    Ok, BC, let's think about this. North of 600,000 stop and frisks each year (1.2 million in 2011, 2012 alone), yet according to the NYPD's own data, less than 1/10 of 1% of all detentions - that's THEIR word - turned out to be guilty of anything at all. During the court case that put a stop to the practice, it was revealed that an analysis of 4.4 million stops yielded just 5,940 firearms, of which only 300 had been used in other crimes.

    I don't care how you try to spin this, that's a lot of civil rights violations and a lot of wasted man hours and taxpayer dollars for a statistically insignificant number of busts. Let them do what Detroit has done - encourage New Yorkers to carry. Since doing that, violent crime was down 25% in the first quarter of this year as compared to last year during the same time frame.

  4. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Hog Jaw, Arkansas
    Posts
    2,275
    Howdy,

    "Probable cause" and "reasonable suspicion".

    Fairly simple terms that are used by LEOs every day.

    I lived and/or worked in Little Rock from 1995 to 2000. During this time, actually from 1990 to 2000, 9 of the 11 years Little Rock was the "Murder Capital of the USA" due to a combo of the Crips and Bloods gang fights and crack cocaine.

    One of the main places to get crack in Southwest Little Rock was at the Crimshaw Apartment complex. This was an entirely 100% Afro-American populate apartment complex ( actually it was the entire 10 block area ) and if you were white and were seen by LRPD in the Crimshaw area you were stopped by the LEOs because due to "reasonable suspicion", there was only one reason you were visiting the Crimshaw area.......... You were there to buy crack, plain and simple.

    LEOs would do the "Stop & Fisk" and if you didn't have any warrants or weapons, they would simply take your crack and any cash you migh have at the time.

    Nothing "random" about the stops. You were stopped because of "Probable cause" and "reasonable suspicion".

    If you hang out in high crime rate areas you should expect the pooppoop to hit the fan at any time.

    Paul
    I'm so Liberal that I work at the Bill and Hillary Clinton Regional Airport!

  5. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Republic of Dead Cell Holler, Occupied Territories of AL, former USA
    Posts
    7,422
    Quote Originally Posted by Stengun View Post
    Howdy,

    "Probable cause" and "reasonable suspicion".

    Fairly simple terms that are used by LEOs every day.

    I lived and/or worked in Little Rock from 1995 to 2000. During this time, actually from 1990 to 2000, 9 of the 11 years Little Rock was the "Murder Capital of the USA" due to a combo of the Crips and Bloods gang fights and crack cocaine.

    One of the main places to get crack in Southwest Little Rock was at the Crimshaw Apartment complex. This was an entirely 100% Afro-American populate apartment complex ( actually it was the entire 10 block area ) and if you were white and were seen by LRPD in the Crimshaw area you were stopped by the LEOs because due to "reasonable suspicion", there was only one reason you were visiting the Crimshaw area.......... You were there to buy crack, plain and simple.

    LEOs would do the "Stop & Fisk" and if you didn't have any warrants or weapons, they would simply take your crack and any cash you migh have at the time.

    Nothing "random" about the stops. You were stopped because of "Probable cause" and "reasonable suspicion".

    If you hang out in high crime rate areas you should expect the pooppoop to hit the fan at any time.

    Paul
    Yeah, I was pulled over about 9 years ago while driving through a part of Huntsville that fits the same description. The pig got me out of the car for no reason, searched it even though I specifically stated he did not have my consent, as I was demanding to know what crime I was suspected of having committed with no answers forthcoming, and after he found nothing and started demanding to know what I was doing there and I told him I don't answer questions without my attorney present, he and his fellow pigs and piglettes finally gave up and allowed me to go on my way.......to the Salvation Army Church a block away where approximately 100 people were meeting to board a chartered bus and head down to Biloxi, MS for disaster relief. I got pulled over about 8:00 the night that Katrina came ashore in NOLA. We were in Biloxi by 10:00 the next morning. I was one of seven or eight other people who got pulled over or hassled while getting gas or groceries at a convenience store around the corner from the church.

    It doesn't surprise me at all that you fancy yourself with the same pigheaded mindset as the pigs who slowed down our departure to provide good, Christian outreach to people in dire need. Whenever I see you post, I can count on seeing another affirmation of everything that's wrong with this country. You are what government produces, and that is what's wrong with this country.

    Blues
    No one has ever heard me say that I "hate" cops, because I don't. This is why I will never trust one again though: You just never know...

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Rocky River, Ohio
    Posts
    1,519
    Quote Originally Posted by Stengun View Post
    If you hang out in high crime rate areas you should expect the pooppoop to hit the fan at any time.
    What if you LIVE in a "high crime rate area"? What if you can't afford to move?

    I spent my childhood growing up in "high crime rate areas".

    You offering to move the NON-criminals in those areas to other areas?

  7. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Hog Jaw, Arkansas
    Posts
    2,275
    Howdy,

    Quote Originally Posted by Deanimator View Post
    What if you LIVE in a "high crime rate area"? What if you can't afford to move?

    I spent my childhood growing up in "high crime rate areas".

    You offering to move the NON-criminals in those areas to other areas?
    Sounds like you want someone that take care of you instead of you being a responsible adult and taking care of yourself.

    As a child you do not have any control over where you live. As an adult you do.

    Live in a high crime rate area as an adult? Move.

    Pretty simple.

    Paul
    I'm so Liberal that I work at the Bill and Hillary Clinton Regional Airport!

  8. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Hog Jaw, Arkansas
    Posts
    2,275
    Howdy,

    Quote Originally Posted by BluesStringer View Post
    Yeah, I was pulled over about 9 years ago while driving through a part of Huntsville that fits the same description. The pig got me out of the car for no reason, searched it even though I specifically stated he did not have my consent, as I was demanding to know what crime I was suspected of having committed with no answers forthcoming, and after he found nothing and started demanding to know what I was doing there and I told him I don't answer questions without my attorney present, he and his fellow pigs and piglettes finally gave up and allowed me to go on my way.......to the Salvation Army Church a block away where approximately 100 people were meeting to board a chartered bus and head down to Bioxi, MS for disaster relief. I got pulled over about 8:00 the night that Katrina came ashore in NOLA. We were in Biloxi by 10:00 the next morning. I was one of seven or eight other people who got pulled over or hassled while getting gas or groceries at a convenience store around the corner from the church.

    It doesn't surprise me at all that you fancy yourself with the same pigheaded mindset as the pigs who slowed down our departure to provide good, Christian outreach to people in dire need. Whenever I see you post, I can count on seeing another affirmation of everything that's wrong with this country. You are what government produces, and that is what's wrong with this country.

    Blues
    One of the most idiotic things I have ever read on the 'Net. More likely than not, the local cops knewn about the meeting at tha SAC and all you would had to have done was tell them were you were going and why and the situation would have ended right then and there.

    Actually, your "story" is pure BS.

    You were "crusin'" in a high crime rate area that was known for drugs and hookers and you played Billy Badbutt with the cops and they backed down and let you go?

    Never happened.

    You were driving in a high crime rate area in the evening, near nightfall, were white in a more than likely black neighborhood, and that gave the cops "probable cause" to pull you over.

    Usually when "Whitey" is in "Black Town" he's looking for 1 or 2 things: drugs and/or hookers. Both are illegal.

    same pigheaded mindset as the pigs? Nope. I was just stating what the LEOs were doing in Little Rock back in the 90's. The "pigheaded mindset" of cops today is NOT a Liberal POV.

    Paul
    I'm so Liberal that I work at the Bill and Hillary Clinton Regional Airport!

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Stengun View Post
    Howdy,

    One of the most idiotic things I have ever read on the 'Net. More likely than not, the local cops knewn about the meeting at tha SAC and all you would had to have done was tell them were you were going and why and the situation would have ended right then and there.

    Actually, your "story" is pure BS.

    You were "crusin'" in a high crime rate area that was known for drugs and hookers and you played Billy Badbutt with the cops and they backed down and let you go?

    Never happened.

    You were driving in a high crime rate area in the evening, near nightfall, were white in a more than likely black neighborhood, and that gave the cops "probable cause" to pull you over.

    Usually when "Whitey" is in "Black Town" he's looking for 1 or 2 things: drugs and/or hookers. Both are illegal.

    same pigheaded mindset as the pigs? Nope. I was just stating what the LEOs were doing in Little Rock back in the 90's. The "pigheaded mindset" of cops today is NOT a Liberal POV.

    Paul
    So, what you are basically saying is that having the wrong color skin for a given neighborhood rises to the level of probable cause for the police to detain someone.
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

  10. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Republic of Dead Cell Holler, Occupied Territories of AL, former USA
    Posts
    7,422
    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    So, what you are basically saying is that having the wrong color skin for a given neighborhood rises to the level of probable cause for the police to detain someone.
    Not what he's saying, that's precisely, exactly, disgustingly and racist-ly what he actually said!
    No one has ever heard me say that I "hate" cops, because I don't. This is why I will never trust one again though: You just never know...

  11. Quote Originally Posted by Stengun View Post
    You were driving in a high crime rate area in the evening, near nightfall, were white in a more than likely black neighborhood, and that gave the cops "probable cause" to pull you over.

    Usually when "Whitey" is in "Black Town" he's looking for 1 or 2 things: drugs and/or hookers. Both are illegal.

    same pigheaded mindset as the pigs? Nope. I was just stating what the LEOs were doing in Little Rock back in the 90's. The "pigheaded mindset" of cops today is NOT a Liberal POV.

    Paul
    So, Paul, according to your theory (NOT MINE!), you are driving through an upper class affluent neighborhood in the evening, near nightfall, where black in a more than likely white neighborhood, and that gave the cops "probable cause" to pull you over.

    Usually when "Colored" is in "White Town" he's looking for 1 or 2 things: a house to break into or a white woman to rape. Both are illegal.

    same pigheaded mindset as the pigs? Nope. I was just stating what the LEOs were doing in Little Rock back in the 60's. The "pigheaded mindset" of cops today is NOT a Liberal POV.

    All the black person has to do when they are stopped by police is tell them were they are going and why and the situation will end right then and there.

    How does that sound to you?
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Quantcast