Is collateral damage ok? - Page 2

View Poll Results: Collateral damage if SHTF

Voters
45. You may not vote on this poll
  • Do nothing and seek cover.

    2 4.44%
  • Move to a better position and try to limit any damage except to the BG.

    41 91.11%
  • Blast away, you're within your right to protect your life from these scumbags

    2 4.44%
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Results 11 to 20 of 44

Thread: Is collateral damage ok?

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Pasco, Washington, United States
    Posts
    6,271
    I'll mimic deanimator.

    Priority: I will not get murdered.

    Secondary: Collateral damage is not okay.

    In the op's scenario, a shtf and I'm not necessarily the main target. Priority is my family. If I can get them out safely, that's my goal. If they are beyond the threat, I'll move to them and look for a clean shot if that's the best way to them.

    If I'm alone (and not the main target), I'm out, the best gun fight is the one you're not in. On my way out, my two points above are my priorities.

    Sent from my HTCONE using USA Carry mobile app
    “One of the illusions of life is that the present hour is not the critical, decisive one.” – Ralph Waldo Emerson

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  3. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Santa Fe Area, New Mexico
    Posts
    3,487
    OK so here's the really BIG question attached to the OP. If SHTF will you engage KNOWING that innocents will be harmed due to your engagement, or are you willing to stand down and watch mayhem prevail? I guess the bottom line is are you willing, in the protection of your family or yourself, to engage the BG knowing there is a high probably that those around you will suffer and or die?
    Just asking..........that self preservation thing. This is supposed to be NOT an easily answered question. Your morals and the Right to Life question.
    "The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities." --author and philosopher Ayn Rand (1905-1982)

  4. #13
    ezkl2230 Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by mappow View Post
    OK so here's the really BIG question attached to the OP. If SHTF will you engage KNOWING that innocents will be harmed due to your engagement, or are you willing to stand down and watch mayhem prevail? I guess the bottom line is are you willing, in the protection of your family or yourself, to engage the BG knowing there is a high probably that those around you will suffer and or die?
    Just asking..........that self preservation thing. This is supposed to be NOT an easily answered question. Your morals and the Right to Life question.
    Good questions, because we are living in a time in which, although mass shootings are still statistically rare here in the US, the nature of those confrontations has changed dramatically.

  5. #14
    I carry a gun to protect myself and my family. That is my first and only priority as I am not a police officer. All those other people are allowed to carry a gun just like myself but apparently they chose not to, so I will let them deal with their decision not to carry. In defense of myself or my family I am willing to act in order to save the like of my family and myself and stop anything threatening us. As for others I will act to help others but that is not my main priority and If I can't be reasonably sure I will not kill an unintended target I will focus on keeping myself and my family safe.

  6. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Posts
    3,832
    My answer in no way implies I am going to put my head between my knees, cower like a dog, and start whimpering. I have trained hard to restrain myself from taking a shot unless the shot was clear. If I don't have a clear shot, I'm not going to start pumping out rounds of lead. This, in my opinion, is irresponsible.

    However, the question is extremely vague. One cannot run every scenario through their head, but one needs to know when one will and will not shoot. This is why you hear the term situational awareness all the time. If a BG is shooting at me while he is in the midst of a crowd... I'm going to duck and take cover with the people. Chances are in that situation he will not be able to see me either. If the crowd is only a handful of people and the BG is within 10 yards of me... chances are I'd be able to take him out without harm to anyone else.

    We have a drill we do. We take two B27 targets (bust of a person) and put one behind the other. The idea is the back target is the BG and the front target is someone you love. They bring us to different distances away until we have a feeling of when we are willing to take the shot or not. I recommend all doing the same.


    I don't agree with any of the choices in the poll as stated and therefore in my post choose "none of the above".
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote."
    ~ Benjamin Franklin (maybe)

  7. #16
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Santa Fe Area, New Mexico
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    3,487
    Quote Originally Posted by wolf_fire View Post
    My answer in no way implies I am going to put my head between my knees, cower like a dog, and start whimpering. I have trained hard to restrain myself from taking a shot unless the shot was clear. If I don't have a clear shot, I'm not going to start pumping out rounds of lead. This, in my opinion, is irresponsible.

    However, the question is extremely vague. One cannot run every scenario through their head, but one needs to know when one will and will not shoot. This is why you hear the term situational awareness all the time. If a BG is shooting at me while he is in the midst of a crowd... I'm going to duck and take cover with the people. Chances are in that situation he will not be able to see me either. If the crowd is only a handful of people and the BG is within 10 yards of me... chances are I'd be able to take him out without harm to anyone else.

    We have a drill we do. We take two B27 targets (bust of a person) and put one behind the other. The idea is the back target is the BG and the front target is someone you love. They bring us to different distances away until we have a feeling of when we are willing to take the shot or not. I recommend all doing the same.


    I don't agree with any of the choices in the poll as stated and therefore in my post choose "none of the above".
    But my question is; Are you willing to take out innocents to save you or your families life? BIG friggin question, I've yet to hear an adequate response. OR is there a one?
    Bottom line for me is IF, with my training I have, within that .3 seconds and adrenaline pumping I'm still not sure about my engagement. I don't care to die but I don't want any one else to perish. I won't shoot through a victim to hit a BG, I will do all I can to effect a termination of the threat. ( Kind of a cop out) but I will do what I have to do to stay alive.
    "The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities." --author and philosopher Ayn Rand (1905-1982)

  8. #17
    ezkl2230 Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by mappow View Post
    But my question is; Are you willing to take out innocents to save you or your families life? BIG friggin question, I've yet to hear an adequate response. OR is there a one?
    Bottom line for me is IF, with my training I have, within that .3 seconds and adrenaline pumping I'm still not sure about my engagement. I don't care to die but I don't want any one else to perish. I won't shoot through a victim to hit a BG, I will do all I can to effect a termination of the threat. ( Kind of a cop out) but I will do what I have to do to stay alive.
    And as I indicated in my first response, as someone who is tasked with helping secure our church until police can respond, we have been instructed that there may be a time when it may become necessary to shoot through someone in order to prevent even greater injury or loss of life. I hope and pray I never find myself in that situation, but I am also preparing myself mentally as best I can in case that day arrives.

    Will it be OK? Not on your life. Will it get done anyway? I'm working on that one.

  9. #18
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Pasco, Washington, United States
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    6,271
    Quote Originally Posted by mappow View Post
    But my question is; Are you willing to take out innocents to save you or your families life? BIG friggin question, I've yet to hear an adequate response. OR is there a one?
    Bottom line for me is IF, with my training I have, within that .3 seconds and adrenaline pumping I'm still not sure about my engagement. I don't care to die but I don't want any one else to perish. I won't shoot through a victim to hit a BG, I will do all I can to effect a termination of the threat. ( Kind of a cop out) but I will do what I have to do to stay alive.
    I'll do anything to protect my family. I'll do anything to stop myself from being killed.

    Sent from my HTCONE using USA Carry mobile app
    “One of the illusions of life is that the present hour is not the critical, decisive one.” – Ralph Waldo Emerson

  10. #19
    What are you using for a weapon? A Bazooka? Aim Small. Know your weapon, know your skill, Aim Small & Make the Kill.
    A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state,
    the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

  11. #20
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Tacoma, Washington
    Posts
    475
    To me it comes down to will I be able to live with the actions I took. If I just leave or hide I would feel shame for not doing what I could to limit the body count. Moving to a better position to get a clear shot is a given that I think we all would do. The problem will be if you have to shoot the Bad Person and it will cause harm or death to an innocent person. That is where most of the debate comes in. Some will say If by killing one innocent person you can save 10 then it is worth it. But what if that one person is your wife, husband, son, daughter or friend would you still be willing to take their life to save the rest of the people.

    For me I would only take a shot when I know that the only person being hit is the Bad Guy [person] because I do not want to be responsible for taking someones life when they where not a threat to my life or well being. And as pointed out only police get away with it because they can not do their jobs if they have to worry about facing charges for the actions they take.

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