Is collateral damage ok? - Page 3

View Poll Results: Collateral damage if SHTF

Voters
45. You may not vote on this poll
  • Do nothing and seek cover.

    2 4.44%
  • Move to a better position and try to limit any damage except to the BG.

    41 91.11%
  • Blast away, you're within your right to protect your life from these scumbags

    2 4.44%
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Results 21 to 30 of 44

Thread: Is collateral damage ok?

  1. #21
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
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    Pittsburgh, PA
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    3,832
    Quote Originally Posted by mappow View Post
    But my question is; Are you willing to take out innocents to save you or your families life? BIG friggin question, I've yet to hear an adequate response. OR is there a one?
    Bottom line for me is IF, with my training I have, within that .3 seconds and adrenaline pumping I'm still not sure about my engagement. I don't care to die but I don't want any one else to perish. I won't shoot through a victim to hit a BG, I will do all I can to effect a termination of the threat. ( Kind of a cop out) but I will do what I have to do to stay alive.
    I surround myself with people that are like-minded. They all have respect for human life. None of my family members would want me shooting through innocent people just to save them. To suggest it as an intentional act as you reworded it in response to my first response is irresponsible on a gun forum and as a gun carrier.

    Let's look at in the future. You did shoot through innocent people to save your wife, daughter, etc. You are now in jail and your family despises you for the murder you just committed. Is that truly something you would be proud of? I honestly did not think that you were posing an intentional slaughtering of innocents as a question. As such, I would have to give an emphatic Absolutely NOT!!

    If however, there is a madman hell bent on shooting everyone in the surrounding area, and the ONLY way to get him is to shoot through an innocent person, I would have to say for the saving grace of everyone there, I may just take that shot if I had a rifle, but I would eliminate every single possibility of stopping him without having to do that. However, since I normally only carry a handgun with hollow point, the chance of it going through the innocent and hitting the BG would be so slim that I wouldn't.

    *** EDIT.... change the rifle scenario. There is no way I could live with myself by doing that. I was thinking take out the one innocent to save the many innocents... but I do not have the constitution to take out an innocent, only the bad guy ***
    Last edited by wolf_fire; 09-10-2013 at 06:04 PM. Reason: can't live with my answer
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote."
    ~ Benjamin Franklin (maybe)

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  3. #22
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    The Lowcountry of South Carolina
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    2,039
    I voted #2, but I would not necessarily move to a new position. If there is a BG firing in a crowd, I think that people may well be moving around (i.e. running like hell), so as long as the BG isn't aiming in my direction the best option would be to remain on target and wait for the opportunity. I would use whatever cover is available, but if I happen to be the only one with the ability to return fire, better sooner than later. Aiming at the BG while people are running between me and my target isn't bad as long as the shot counts. Also, if bystanders see that I am pointing a gun they will probably not hang around in front of me for too long either.
    Chief

  4. #23
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
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    The Lowcountry of South Carolina
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    2,039
    Quote Originally Posted by mappow View Post
    OK so here's the really BIG question attached to the OP. If SHTF will you engage KNOWING that innocents will be harmed due to your engagement, or are you willing to stand down and watch mayhem prevail? I guess the bottom line is are you willing, in the protection of your family or yourself, to engage the BG knowing there is a high probably that those around you will suffer and or die?
    Just asking..........that self preservation thing. This is supposed to be NOT an easily answered question. Your morals and the Right to Life question.
    Basically what you are asking is "will you shoot the hostage to take out the bad guy?" No.
    Chief

  5. #24
    Collateral damage is not OK. It is not OK to kill or maim innocent human beings, even while defending yourself or your loved ones, regardless of the presence or lack of "legal" consequences. This is part of the responsibility you bear when you strap on that firearm. Put this question from the other perspective: Would it be OK with anyone here if their wife, or brother, or sister, or child, etc., had a bullet put through them by another guy who claimed he had a right to defend himself? You own the consequences of every bullet that comes out of your firearm. The fact that you were defending yourself or your loved ones, even though you have the right to, does not relieve you of that responsibility and accountability one bit. For those who are talking of shooting through the hostage, you need to get a little further away from Hollywood. You're either in position and good enough to take the head shot, or you're not.

  6. #25
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    State of Confusion
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    Quote Originally Posted by mappow View Post
    OK so here's the really BIG question attached to the OP. If SHTF will you engage KNOWING that innocents will be harmed due to your engagement, or are you willing to stand down and watch mayhem prevail? I guess the bottom line is are you willing, in the protection of your family or yourself, to engage the BG knowing there is a high probably that those around you will suffer and or die?
    Just asking..........that self preservation thing. This is supposed to be NOT an easily answered question. Your morals and the Right to Life question.
    I would remind people that in putting a family at risk one might become the victim of an unengaged parent who decides to protect his family. I would defend my family member against anyone who threatens their safety for any reason. Doesn't matter to me that the person I shot was defending himself from a perp. If he points at my family he's going.
    GOD, GUNS and GUITARS

  7. #26
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Santa Fe Area, New Mexico
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    3,487
    Quote Originally Posted by whodat2710 View Post
    Basically what you are asking is "will you shoot the hostage to take out the bad guy?" No.
    That was not the question. "are you willing, in the protection of your family or yourself, to engage the BG knowing there is a high probably that those around you will suffer and or die?" That is the question............... When all else fails Puddle Jumper, RTMFB. Again, "This is supposed to be NOT an easily answered question."
    "The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities." --author and philosopher Ayn Rand (1905-1982)

  8. #27
    I will always do my best to avoid collateral damage, BUT, I will engage to prevent harm to me, mine, and others, in that order, even if back of target is not clear.
    War to the Knife, Knife to the hilt.
    If we don't want to live in a trashy area, we all have to be willing to help pick up the trash.

  9. #28
    I think anyone with a conscious, and carries a gun for self defense would have trouble with this question, if you become engaged in a life or death situation with bystanders and you're the target of
    the B.G. I believe you are in serious trouble. Do you return fire and hope you don't inflict death or injury to the innocents, or do you run for your life hoping the B.G. don't shoot straight ?
    There are so many variables involved that makes this a question impossible to address until it actually happens. I think it would boil down to the victims state of mind and training,
    no one wants to be shot and or killed, so the answer is there is no one fits all answer, the out come will be different for each of us in my humble opinion.

  10. #29
    I am not obligated to save others but I am obligated to protect my family and myself. If a gun is pointed in my direction I will meet that obligation. That being said it would most likely be a split second decision unless situational awareness kicked in first and I was able to avoid it.
    Certified NRA Firearms Instructor
    Oklahoma SDA Instructor
    Utah CCW Instructor

  11. #30
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Pasco, Washington, United States
    Posts
    6,271
    Let's get a little more specific. A shooter in the mall has your wife corned 50 feet away, his firearm is aimed at her upper body, there are innocents behind and in front of the shooter, the shot will not be easy and is very risky. Do you take the shot? Or do you watch your wife die?

    Quote Originally Posted by BC1 View Post
    I would remind people that in putting a family at risk one might become the victim of an unengaged parent who decides to protect his family. I would defend my family member against anyone who threatens their safety for any reason. Doesn't matter to me that the person I shot was defending himself from a perp. If he points at my family he's going.
    That is always a risk associated with drawing your firearm, in any given scenario.

    Sent from my HTCONE using USA Carry mobile app
    “One of the illusions of life is that the present hour is not the critical, decisive one.” – Ralph Waldo Emerson

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