Is collateral damage ok? - Page 4

View Poll Results: Collateral damage if SHTF

Voters
45. You may not vote on this poll
  • Do nothing and seek cover.

    2 4.44%
  • Move to a better position and try to limit any damage except to the BG.

    41 91.11%
  • Blast away, you're within your right to protect your life from these scumbags

    2 4.44%
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Thread: Is collateral damage ok?

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by ezkl2230 View Post
    And as I indicated in my first response, as someone who is tasked with helping secure our church until police can respond, we have been instructed that there may be a time when it may become necessary to shoot through someone in order to prevent even greater injury or loss of life. I hope and pray I never find myself in that situation, but I am also preparing myself mentally as best I can in case that day arrives.

    Will it be OK? Not on your life. Will it get done anyway? I'm working on that one.
    Just curious... how do you account for hollow points on that one? How far do they penetrate and at what distance? Sure, there's tons of video on that, but that would be a very tough call to make on the spot. It would be pretty awful to take out the innocent and leave the BG alive and kicking. And yes, you could certainly have follow up shots, but it would depend on how fast the innocent fell and if the BG didn't grab the innocent as a shield. Yikes... sure hope I don't run across that one.
    Modern Whig
    "Government is not meant to burden Liberty but rather to secure it." -T.J. O'Hara

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  3. #32
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firefighterchen View Post
    Let's get a little more specific. A shooter in the mall has your wife corned 50 feet away, his firearm is aimed at her upper body, there are innocents behind and in front of the shooter, the shot will not be easy and is very risky. Do you take the shot? Or do you watch your wife die?



    That is always a risk associated with drawing your firearm, in any given scenario.

    Sent from my HTCONE using USA Carry mobile app
    Hypotheticals don't work. It's never that cut and dry. There are many variables that can't be considered in a hypothetical. But if I may kill your wife or kids to save mine then I can't take the shot. Fifty feet is a tight shot for a hostage/gunpoint situation. Closer and I might take him but fifty is little too far.
    GOD, GUNS and GUITARS

  4. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by whodat2710 View Post
    I voted #2, but I would not necessarily move to a new position. If there is a BG firing in a crowd, I think that people may well be moving around (i.e. running like hell), so as long as the BG isn't aiming in my direction the best option would be to remain on target and wait for the opportunity. I would use whatever cover is available, but if I happen to be the only one with the ability to return fire, better sooner than later. Aiming at the BG while people are running between me and my target isn't bad as long as the shot counts. Also, if bystanders see that I am pointing a gun they will probably not hang around in front of me for too long either.
    Good answer!

    I would make one addition. If someone attempts to kill or significantly harm me, my wife, or family and I am armed and present, I will do my level best to see that they don't go home that night.
    Last edited by fudo; 09-11-2013 at 12:18 PM. Reason: afterthought
    War to the Knife, Knife to the hilt.
    If we don't want to live in a trashy area, we all have to be willing to help pick up the trash.

  5. #34
    Almost never ever do anything to cause collateral damage. We cannot sit here and make a determination of all situations. Each situation has to stand on its own. I would never personally want to injure or harm a bystander, unless it was the only way to stop many more deaths. It could put you in serious jeoprady in a a court of law, but to save many lives it would probably be worth the risk. Until we are in the situation, we cannot say exactly how we would react.

  6. #35
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
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    Santa Fe Area, New Mexico
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    3,487
    I thank all that have replied. I do believe this question is enviable in most confrontations that we would encounter out in town. A few cowboy responses, ok one, and a few others that really gave thought to what might become reality if the SHTF within the confines of a business or even outside.
    My thoughts are that if at all possible, ensure you know where your rounds are going. Ensure you do every thing you can to minimize any damage to others and know you limitations on engagement. "is it wise to engage" or should I just fade away into the back ground and let events unfold as they may?
    Still a tuff question for me and YES it does depend on the event. As stated by some, if myself or family is threatened then I will engage and will stop the threat. I will do everything possible to minimize any collateral damage. BUT my life and those of my family come first. If (I'm presented with the threat, then I will react to ensure that threat is neutralized) NOT saying I would blast through anyone to hit a BG. Just saying I'm here to protect and defend my life and my families.
    Thanks again for all the responses.
    "The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities." --author and philosopher Ayn Rand (1905-1982)

  7. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by BC1 View Post
    Hypotheticals don't work. It's never that cut and dry. There are many variables that can't be considered in a hypothetical. But if I may kill your wife or kids to save mine then I can't take the shot. Fifty feet is a tight shot for a hostage/gunpoint situation. Closer and I might take him but fifty is little too far.
    I train at 25 yards, 75 feet away... there are days I have 6" circles, some 8". I'm not taking that shot. At that range, you use a rifle... no rifle, you get in closer.
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote."
    ~ Benjamin Franklin (maybe)

  8. #37

    Is collateral damage ok?

    By law police are responsible for every round they fire also. We were taught we could not take that shot.
    "Lets Be Careful Out There!"

    Ron

  9. #38
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by RonM0710 View Post
    By law police are responsible for every round they fire also. We were taught we could not take that shot.
    Police also have a gaggle of lawyers at their beck and call, and a society more likely to forgive them for collateral damage in the line of duty than they are to forgive you for being a raging lunatic gun-owner that shoots up the innocent.
    -
    I stand by my decision to remain on target until a shot presents itself. If I can maneuver to better that chance then I will. If I can get behind cover without losing contact I will. Am I a cowboy hoping that this comes about? Of course not, but I figure that if something like this does come to pass, then I was put there with a gun and a chance to make a difference for a reason. Whether it's to protect myself, my family, or innocent bystanders who might be the next victim, that's just me. Maybe it's 25 years of military/law enforcement training and experience, maybe it's just how I was raised.
    -
    Part of situational awareness is playing the "what if" game, which this thread does as well. We will revert to training and muscle memory when the adrenaline flows, and having an idea of what you would do in a given situation can't hurt.
    Chief

  10. #39
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
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    At the fire department we went by a saying, "risk a lot to save a lot, risk a little to save a little." That's what I'm applying to this question. My family, friends, and myself mean a lot, so I'll risk a lot for them.

    On a side note, I don't think those referencing cowboys really know what a cowboy is...

    Sent from my HTCONE using USA Carry mobile app
    “One of the illusions of life is that the present hour is not the critical, decisive one.” – Ralph Waldo Emerson

  11. #40
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
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    Howdy,

    I didn't vote in the poll but I wore a "I shoot hostages" IPSC pin on my web gear for many years while in the military and as a Gov't employee/contractor.

    Paul
    I'm so Liberal that I work at the Bill and Hillary Clinton Regional Airport!

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