Starbucks' CEO makes a "respectful request that customers no longer bring firearms." - Page 7
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Thread: Starbucks' CEO makes a "respectful request that customers no longer bring firearms."

  1. Quote Originally Posted by ezkl2230 View Post
    As I posted on another thread, I fully support the right to OC even though I personally choose to CC. Still, photos like this one probably had more than a little to do with his decision. These guys don't exactly help our cause. This photo was posted on bearingarms.com.

    HAHA! ROFLMAO! I love it! Here's the background on that photo:

    "That pic is of me [not me, NavyLCDR, but the guy in the photo], on an Army base in Kuwait. It was the closest Starbucks to the base the Navy had us on back in 2005. In order to leave base, you needed four things:
    1) Signed permission from your Commanding Officer
    2) A Cell Phone
    3) At least one buddy
    and lastly
    4) Weapons

    We could not leave base without weapons of our own, or an armed escort!

    So we drove from Camp Patriot to the inland Army base for things like Starbucks and pizza! It was a little taste of home!

    It became a mantra.."Grab your guns, were going to Starbucks!"

    We took those pictures at the Starbucks on base where we all were carrying, to send home to friends and show them how "bad" we had it! My comment at the time was "And you think the line at your starbucks is bad!"

    Some of the comments regarding your story bothered me, until I sat back and realized that people will believe what they want, regardless of the facts.....especially if they don't have them!"
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

  2.   
  3. Quote Originally Posted by kennyredhill View Post
    My first amendment rights don't walk into a coffe shop with a shotgun in their hands
    It would if that Starbucks was in the middle of the dessert in Kuwait like the photo you are referring to was. The photo you are referring to was a lighthearted attempt at bringing some humor to the situations that deployed US Soldiers and Sailors face everyday while serving half way around the world from their families.
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

  4. Quote Originally Posted by Secofun View Post
    Sir; I believe on the 2nd page was a specific comment about being hasseled by ignorant law enforcement for open and possibly concealed carry. It relates to Starbucks as the above comment of ignorant LE was made in this thread in how individuals choose to display firearms. There are specific reasons on how to approach an unknown individual with a firearm and I attempted to point it out. And that many LE are strong supporters of the 2nd Amendment. To paint LE with that broad of a statement only helps the gun banners.
    You are probably referring to this post?

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Outlaw View Post
    I completely support the right to open carry, but I personally prefer to carry 'concealed' because I don't want to experience the hassle's of dealing with ignorant LEO's on a daily basis.
    I personally have had the joyous experience of being hassled by an ignorant LEO for doing nothing more than eating dinner in a restaurant at dinner time with a handgun in a holster on my belt. My personal opinion is that "on a daily basis" is a bit of an exaggeration, but the fact is that there is, what I feel to be a very small minority, of police officers who do hassle law abiding citizens either out of ignorance or on a power trip. Is it fair to judge all LEOs the same? NO! Just as much as it is not fair to judge all open carriers by the actions of a few.

    Want a fine example of the ignorant LEO that The_Outlaw is talking about? Read this:
    http://www.usacarry.com/forums/washi...pen-carry.html
    The cop, if he really is what he claims to be, in that thread is saying that if you don't want a LEO to screw his gun into your ear than you better keep you gun unloaded and in the trunk and tell them about your unloaded gun locked in the trunk if you are stopped.

    Unfortunately people do tend to judge entire groups by the actions of the "way out there" minority portions of those groups, regardless of which side they are on. And, heck, the opposite is true as well. Sometimes we are way to quick to defend the actions of those "way out there" just because they do happen to be a "member" of our side or group.
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

  5. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    Unfortunately people do tend to judge entire groups by the actions of the "way out there" minority portions of those groups, regardless of which side they are on. And, heck, the opposite is true as well. Sometimes we are way to quick to defend the actions of those "way out there" just because they do happen to be a "member" of our side or group.
    As a matter of fact, in EVERY group of people there are some "way out there" people. Unfortunately it is the nail that sticks up that gets noticed, and eventually pounded down. Also unfortunately, our country has drifted away from personal rights and accountability and tends to judge and attempt to legislate the many based on the actions of the few.
    Chief

  6. Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    You are probably referring to this post?



    I personally have had the joyous experience of being hassled by an ignorant LEO for doing nothing more than eating dinner in a restaurant at dinner time with a handgun in a holster on my belt. My personal opinion is that "on a daily basis" is a bit of an exaggeration, but the fact is that there is, what I feel to be a very small minority, of police officers who do hassle law abiding citizens either out of ignorance or on a power trip. Is it fair to judge all LEOs the same? NO! Just as much as it is not fair to judge all open carriers by the actions of a few.

    Want a fine example of the ignorant LEO that The_Outlaw is talking about? Read this:
    http://www.usacarry.com/forums/washi...pen-carry.html
    The cop, if he really is what he claims to be, in that thread is saying that if you don't want a LEO to screw his gun into your ear than you better keep you gun unloaded and in the trunk and tell them about your unloaded gun locked in the trunk if you are stopped.

    Unfortunately people do tend to judge entire groups by the actions of the "way out there" minority portions of those groups, regardless of which side they are on. And, heck, the opposite is true as well. Sometimes we are way to quick to defend the actions of those "way out there" just because they do happen to be a "member" of our side or group.
    I definitely agree. And I brought up some of these minority situations to one if my professors who is a Lieutenant at a local Sheriff's department and he brought up something that no one ever thinks about. Any time you find YouTube videos of all these negative LEO experiences, you generally find someone who was LOOKING for that encounter to happen. He said he fully supports the most liberal interpretation of the 2nd amendment, but what he does not have any respect for is people who go out looking for these situations just for the sole purpose of giving all LEOs a bad name.

    What you have to realize is that the reason you see "so many" of these cases is because their the only ones anyone takes the time to post. Google image search a disease...you won't find any of the mild, 99%-of-the-time cases. What you'll find are the 1% rare cases where is the worst possible scenario. Is the same case. People, especially the news, love to sensationalize bad situations.

  7. #66
    If a person carries concealed, what difference does it make. Open carry is simply too controversial to too many people and organizations. I will always say that open carry is just asking for problems - problems from the anti-gun person, potential problems from some crazy guy just looking for trouble, problems even personally feeling like you're indestructible, problems from business owners, problems from LEO's, and on and on. Just carry concealed and be happy, not to mention having the element of surprise.

  8. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndeyHall View Post
    I definitely agree. And I brought up some of these minority situations to one if my professors who is a Lieutenant at a local Sheriff's department and he brought up something that no one ever thinks about. Any time you find YouTube videos of all these negative LEO experiences, you generally find someone who was LOOKING for that encounter to happen. He said he fully supports the most liberal interpretation of the 2nd amendment, but what he does not have any respect for is people who go out looking for these situations just for the sole purpose of giving all LEOs a bad name.

    What you have to realize is that the reason you see "so many" of these cases is because their the only ones anyone takes the time to post. Google image search a disease...you won't find any of the mild, 99%-of-the-time cases. What you'll find are the 1% rare cases where is the worst possible scenario. Is the same case. People, especially the news, love to sensationalize bad situations.
    Your professor is full of .

    Which agency keeps stats on how many "good cop" vs. how many "bad cop" encounters happen in this country? None that I am aware of. The only possible data that they could even base such percentages on would be complaints filed by citizens compared against the resolution of those complaints. Most citizens don't record their encounters, and if they have a negative contact, most don't go to the trouble of filing a complaint. And there are some pretty horrendous videos available that show what can happen when they do go to the trouble of filing one too.

    It wouldn't surprise me to find out that the percentages might even be "better" for cops than what you say your professor "cited," but that's hardly the point is it? If a cop is caught on video treating citizens with respect while being careful not to step on their rights, here's the headline:

    EXTRA: OFFICER FRIENDLY DID HIS JOB!


    No cop supporter should be trying to minimize either the percentages or the significance of the hundreds of examples
    available on video that unequivocally show cop abuse, whether it be physical abuse or abuse of their authorities. If you support cops, you should join everyone whom you perceive doesn't in fighting to have bad cops held accountable for their abuses, no matter how small their percentages might be.

    Unless your professor had that as part of his lesson after "citing" phony "statistics," then I'll stick with him being full of
    .

    Blues

    ETA: And another thing - Nobody goes "looking" for a cop to abuse them, they go out prepared to record the abuse if/when it happens. They go out prepared to cite the laws that the cops are responsible for abiding by and helping the citizen as long as s/he is in compliance with.

    The denial and/or minimization of abuse under color of authority is sickening in this so-called "free" country. I will never understand why the people who take the most legitimate advantage of the 2nd Amendment, gun owners, CC'ers and OC'ers, seem so reticent to criticize cops who are WAY out of line when they question their rights under that amendment, or illegally use citizens' exercise of it to justify abusing their authority. If there were only one example of a cop doing that per year, it should be criticized just as roundly as if it happened every single day of the year. And guess what? Unfortunately, it does.





    No one has ever heard me say that I "hate" cops, because I don't. This is why I will never trust one again though: You just never know...

  9. Quote Originally Posted by BluesStringer View Post
    Your professor is full of .

    Which agency keeps stats on how many "good cop" vs. how many "bad cop" encounters happen in this country? None that I am aware of. The only possible data that they could even base such percentages on would be complaints filed by citizens compared against the resolution of those complaints. Most citizens don't record their encounters, and if they have a negative contact, most don't go to the trouble of filing a complaint. And there are some pretty horrendous videos available that show what can happen when they do go to the trouble of filing one too.

    It wouldn't surprise me to find out that the percentages might even be "better" for cops than what you say your professor "cited," but that's hardly the point is it? If a cop is caught on video treating citizens with respect while being careful not to step on their rights, here's the headline:

    EXTRA: OFFICER FRIENDLY DID HIS JOB!


    No cop supporter should be trying to minimize either the percentages or the significance of the hundreds of examples
    available on video that unequivocally show cop abuse, whether it be physical abuse or abuse of their authorities. If you support cops, you should join everyone whom you perceive doesn't in fighting to have bad cops held accountable for their abuses, no matter how small their percentages might be.

    Unless your professor had that as part of his lesson after "citing" phony "statistics," then I'll stick with him being full of
    .

    Blues

    ETA: And another thing - Nobody goes "looking" for a cop to abuse them, they go out prepared to record the abuse if/when it happens. They go out prepared to cite the laws that the cops are responsible for abiding by and helping the citizen as long as s/he is in compliance with.

    The denial and/or minimization of abuse under color of authority is sickening in this so-called "free" country. I will never understand why the people who take the most legitimate advantage of the 2nd Amendment, gun owners, CC'ers and OC'ers, seem so reticent to criticize cops who are WAY out of line when they question their rights under that amendment, or illegally use citizens' exercise of it to justify abusing their authority. If there were only one example of a cop doing that per year, it should be criticized just as roundly as if it happened every single day of the year. And guess what? Unfortunately, it does.





    Blues I use to hold a lot of respect for the comments you make, but here lately I have seen several examples that prove that you have bad opinions just like everyone else. Based on this comment, you also showed that you can jump to conclusions based on nothing. Nowhere did I say that the percentage I posted was either backed up by data, nor did I say that he said it. In fact, I put it in a separate paragraph that was based on MY thoughts. On top of that, the percentage I posted was not even referencing LEOs, I was giving an exaggerated statistic based on a google image search saying that if you searched a disease, almost all the pictures you find will be based off of the 1% rare extreme cases of that disease, and hardly any of them will show you what the 99% of the time normal cases look like. So the next time you look to jump to conclusions like that, read it over once more.

    And secondly, you know nothing about this guy to say what he is full of or not, and you sure didn't have enough info out of what I posted to make that type of comment. I call him a "professor" because he teaches the class. He really isn't. He's a Lieutenant who's been on the force for over 30 years, and he's probably the most down to earth nicest cops you'll ever meet. His current job at the Sheriff's department is hiring. He often talks to us about what he looks for in officers with people skills vs hot heads, and I would say he knows what he's talking about, because since he became the HR Lt. at this agency, they have become one of the top CALEA agencies in the country.

    But the point he was making to me and that I was making to you about the open carry issue was that yes, people may have every right to carry the guns they do openly in public. But there are tons of people out there who only do it to get a rise out of people. As the old saying goes, intentions pave the road to hell, and I firmly believe that laws do not make criminals, but rather their intentions. So it is their intentions that he is calling into question. Just because you have a right to do something doesn't mean you should do it for spite to the other side. That's not how you get your message across. Cops have every right to get an attitude with you and get in your face when they wanna ask you questions. But how effective is that cop going to be compared to the one that tries to come across rationally and calmly? If you wanna carry an AR15 on your back through downtown and you are simply doing it because you legitimately want it for your protection, then that's one thing. But doing it for the sole purpose of getting a rise out of people so that you can get in their face and argue your opinion, that's what I have an issue with.

    And no one is denying that there aren't lots of bad apples out there. But what is going to motivate a cop to treat you with any respect when they have the impression that no one has any respect for them? You seem to be the type that goes into a situation with a determined mindset of what the other person is going to be like. And it's like this teacher of mine also tells us...you have to develop many types of tools to be able to deal with many different types of people. If the only tool in your toolbox is a hammer, then everything is going to look like a nail.

  10. Quote Originally Posted by AndeyHall View Post
    What you have to realize is that the reason you see "so many" of these cases is because their the only ones anyone takes the time to post. Google image search a disease...you won't find any of the mild, 99%-of-the-time cases. What you'll find are the 1% rare cases where is the worst possible scenario. Is the same case. People, especially the news, love to sensationalize bad situations.
    The bold part is absolutely not true on this forum. I swear we need a separate subforum for all the posts about, "I got stopped and showed the officer my CPL and told him about my gun and he left me off with a warning."

    Quote Originally Posted by bootsdeal View Post
    I will always say that open carry is just asking for problems - problems from the anti-gun person, potential problems from some crazy guy just looking for trouble, problems even personally feeling like you're indestructible, problems from business owners, problems from LEO's, and on and on. Just carry concealed and be happy, not to mention having the element of surprise.
    Potential problems that those of us who open carry in routine day-to-day life almost never encounter. For me the element of surprise isn't worth much more than Obama's hope and change, just my personal opinion.
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

  11. #70
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    I respect Mr. Schultz decision, in his letter above. He is asking not not to make his company a political front! I respect that! I think all the publicty the open carry people want is more publicity! I think the open carry folks pushed there agenda a little to far. I have never open carryed nor do I desire to do so. I do carry concealed daily. His letter is not for or against, just a request to stay neutral, and to keep his company from becoming a political target. I might add that it has been well over 5 years since I have had anything from one of his stores. I will not boycott Starbucks for wanting to remain neutral, I just wont go because I don't like spending $5.00 for coffee that I don't like!
    Last edited by sbubrick; 09-20-2013 at 04:05 PM. Reason: add a word

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