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Thread: To open carry or not...

  1. Quote Originally Posted by localgirl View Post
    Navy LCDR will be on here any minute now and it won't be pretty.
    Who says I'm not pretty?



    And it's amazing... nobody ran in terror from the gun on my belt!
    My sweatshirt says, "DADD: Dad's Against Daughters Dating, shoot the first one and the rest will get the message" :-) My daughter got it for me for a Father's day present.
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

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  3. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by kennyredhill View Post
    The problem with open carry is that once you have it then you have some idiot that wants to push it to the limit. Oh if I can open carry a pistol let me take my shotgun to Starbucks, you get rid of those idiots and you won’t have problem with open carry.
    I've heard that argument before, it came from an anti gunner who had no foundation for such a claim so they turned to ridicule and name calling...oh and they were taking about ALL gun owners.

    Not surprising. It seems you're new to the forum, and your stereotypes on Caucasian white man and open carry has clearly jaded you.

    Sent from my HTCONE using USA Carry mobile app
    “One of the illusions of life is that the present hour is not the critical, decisive one.” – Ralph Waldo Emerson

  4. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by kennyredhill View Post
    The problem with open carry is that once you have it then you have some idiot that wants to push it to the limit. Oh if I can open carry a pistol let me take my shotgun to Starbucks, you get rid of those idiots and you won’t have problem with open carry.
    The problem with concealed carry is that, except for a very few States, carrying a firearm concealed is illegal without a permit.

    And... the problem with a permit is that when the government is in control of who is allowed and, more importantly, who is NOT allowed to have a permit then carrying a gun is not a right but is a government controlled privilege only available to those who can meet the qualifying criteria... and that includes being able to afford all fees connected to that permit.

    The following is a general comment not directed at you personally kennyredhill...

    I personally think it is terrible there are those who do not understand that the right to bear arms is not limited to pistols nor is it limited by the opinions of those who don't like how other people exercise that right... and that a concealed carry permit is the exact government control that "shall not be infringed" was intended to stop.

    If permission must be asked for (must first have a permit) then a person does NOT have the right to bear arms... they only have a privilege the government controls.

  5. Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    Who says I'm not pretty?



    And it's amazing... nobody ran in terror from the gun on my belt!
    My sweatshirt says, "DADD: Dad's Against Daughters Dating, shoot the first one and the rest will get the message" :-) My daughter got it for me for a Father's day present.
    See now that's not bad but what do you think would happen if you chose to pull you pistol and use it for a prop in the picture? would that still be OK? Whether you like it or condone it the extremeists are the face of open carry and open carry is the face of gun owners to the world

  6. Quote Originally Posted by Firefighterchen View Post
    I've heard that argument before, it came from an anti gunner who had no foundation for such a claim so they turned to ridicule and name calling...oh and they were taking about ALL gun owners.

    Not surprising. It seems your new to the forum, and your stereotypes on Caucasian white man and open carry has clearly jaded you.

    Sent from my HTCONE using USA Carry mobile app
    I’m sorry if this sounds racist but even if I have nothing against you personally you cannot deny the historical fact that at one time the American government made it national policy to remove my entire race from the face of the earth. I was born on what you call a reservation but was in reality a concentration camp, I grew up with your nation’s policy of genocide against my people in my face every day and I will never ever ever forget it and I will never ever ever ever forget that human beings in the 21st century are capable of committing every atrocity their ancestors did in the 19th ro in the 20th. In my opinion any Native American who is anti gun is as foolish as any African American or any Jew who is anti gun

  7. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by kennyredhill View Post
    I’m sorry if this sounds racist but even if I have nothing against you personally you cannot deny the historical fact that at one time the American government made it national policy to remove my entire race from the face of the earth. I was born on what you call a reservation but was in reality a concentration camp, I grew up with your nation’s policy of genocide against my people in my face every day and I will never ever ever forget it and I will never ever ever ever forget that human beings in the 21st century are capable of committing every atrocity their ancestors did in the 19th ro in the 20th. In my opinion any Native American who is anti gun is as foolish as any African American or any Jew who is anti gun
    Because only Native Americans, Africans, and Jews have had persecution in their cultures history...

    Get real. Every culture has had hardships. Including the Asian culture, who actually did go to concentration camps in the US. Extremists only represent open carriers to bigots. Same goes for those who stereotype Muslims, Christians, feminists, native Americans, Asians, etc based on their extremists.

    Sent from my HTCONE using USA Carry mobile app
    “One of the illusions of life is that the present hour is not the critical, decisive one.” – Ralph Waldo Emerson

  8. Open carry is legal in South Dakota but I don’t think I’ve ever actually seen it. I double checked the tribal law and according to the tribal law on Pine Ridge Indians are prohibited from carrying concealed without a tribal license. The tribal law only applies to residents of the reservation any foreigners found in possession would fall under the exclusion rule which seems to mean that once they prove they aren’t tribal members they get kicked of the res.

  9. Quote Originally Posted by Firefighterchen View Post
    Because only Native Americans, Africans, and Jews have had persecution in their cultures history...

    Get real. Every culture has had hardships. Including the Asian culture, who actually did go to concentration camps in the US. Extremists only represent open carriers to bigots. Same goes for those who stereotype Muslims, Christians, feminists, native Americans, Asians, etc based on their extremists.

    Sent from my HTCONE using USA Carry mobile app
    If you don't think a reservation is aconcentration camp you've never been to one

    I think extremists represent open carriers to the guy that owns Starbucks too.

  10. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefighterchen View Post
    Open carry is not why they are requesting firearms to not be brought into their shops.
    Wrong!

    First of all, it is all about OC, as in the CEO's letter there are only references to OC in his stores. In fact it is mentioned 7 or 8 times in his letter and CC is NOT mentioned at all.
    Tuesday, September 17, 2013

    Posted by Howard Schultz, Starbucks chairman, president and chief executive officer
    Dear Fellow Americans,

    Few topics in America generate a more polarized and emotional debate than guns. In recent months, Starbucks stores and our partners (employees) who work in our stores have been thrust unwillingly into the middle of this debate. That’s why I am writing today with a respectful request that customers no longer bring firearms into our stores or outdoor seating areas.
    From the beginning, our vision at Starbucks has been to create a “third place” between home and work where people can come together to enjoy the peace and pleasure of coffee and community. Our values have always centered on building community rather than dividing people, and our stores exist to give every customer a safe and comfortable respite from the concerns of daily life.
    We appreciate that there is a highly sensitive balance of rights and responsibilities surrounding America’s gun laws, and we recognize the deep passion for and against the “open carry” laws adopted by many states. (In the United States, “open carry” is the term used for openly carrying a firearm in public.) For years we have listened carefully to input from our customers, partners, community leaders and voices on both sides of this complicated, highly charged issue.

    Our company’s longstanding approach to “open carry” has been to follow local laws: we permit it in states where allowed and we prohibit it in states where these laws don’t exist. We have chosen this approach because we believe our store partners should not be put in the uncomfortable position of requiring customers to disarm or leave our stores. We believe that gun policy should be addressed by government and law enforcement—not by Starbucks and our store partners.

    Recently, however, we’ve seen the “open carry” debate become increasingly uncivil and, in some cases, even threatening. Pro-gun activists have used our stores as a political stage for media events misleadingly called “Starbucks Appreciation Days” that disingenuously portray Starbucks as a champion of “open carry.” To be clear: we do not want these events in our stores. Some anti-gun activists have also played a role in ratcheting up the rhetoric and friction, including soliciting and confronting our customers and partners.

    For these reasons, today we are respectfully requesting that customers no longer bring firearms into our stores or outdoor seating areas—even in states where “open carry” is permitted—unless they are authorized law enforcement personnel.

    I would like to clarify two points. First, this is a request and not an outright ban. Why? Because we want to give responsible gun owners the chance to respect our request—and also because enforcing a ban would potentially require our partners to confront armed customers, and that is not a role I am comfortable asking Starbucks partners to take on. Second, we know we cannot satisfy everyone. For those who oppose “open carry,” we believe the legislative and policy-making process is the proper arena for this debate, not our stores. For those who champion “open carry,” please respect that Starbucks stores are places where everyone should feel relaxed and comfortable. The presence of a weapon in our stores is unsettling and upsetting for many of our customers.

    I am proud of our country and our heritage of civil discourse and debate. It is in this spirit that we make today’s request. Whatever your view, I encourage you to be responsible and respectful of each other as citizens and neighbors.
    Sincerely,
    Howard Schultz
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefighterchen View Post
    Do you mind posting where Starbucks said they would still serve gun owners carrying firearms, openly or concealed?
    And he said that those the choose to continue to ignore the request will be served.

    Schultz hopes people will honor the request not to bring in guns but says the company will nevertheless serve those who do.
    Starbucks CEO Howard Schultz urges customers to not bring guns to cafes - CBS News

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  11. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by XD40scinNC View Post
    Wrong!

    First of all, it is all about OC, as in the CEO's letter there are only references to OC in his stores. In fact it is mentioned 7 or 8 times in his letter and CC is NOT mentioned at all.




    And he said that those the choose to continue to ignore the request will be served.


    Starbucks CEO Howard Schultz urges customers to not bring guns to cafes - CBS News

    This easy research is provide free of charge, this time, next time you are on your own.
    I see you conveniently left out the the part of the letter that addresses the problem. Yes the letter tries, and fails, to try and explain open carry laws. That's not the problem, they have always held that the local laws were to be followed. This is the problem:

    "Recently, however, we’ve seen the “open carry” debate become increasingly uncivil and, in some cases, even threatening. Pro-gun activists have used our stores as a political stage for media events misleadingly called “Starbucks Appreciation Days” that disingenuously portray Starbucks as a champion of “open carry.” To be clear: we do not want these events in our stores. Some anti-gun activists have also played a role in ratcheting up the rhetoric and friction, including soliciting and confronting our customers and partners.

    For these reasons, today we are respectfully requesting that customers no longer bring firearms into our stores or outdoor seating areas—even in states where “open carry” is permitted—unless they are authorized law enforcement personnel.

    Notice the bold. Pro gun activists (concealed and opened) and anti gun activists were staging EVENTS that were getting out of hand. He reiterates, they want to follow local laws, but they do not want the EVENTS in their store.

    He then requests firearms to not be brought into his store. If it was truly about open carry they would not allow OC guns, right? Apparently not, he doesn't want firearms in his stores at all. All this in an attempt to stop the EVENTS.

    Thank you for the link. It's amazing how he could muster the guts to publish this letter, and yet not understand how carry laws work and still act like gun owners are on the verge of chaos, so much so, his employees shouldn't confront an armed person.

    Sent from my HTCONE using USA Carry mobile app
    “One of the illusions of life is that the present hour is not the critical, decisive one.” – Ralph Waldo Emerson

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