Should It Be Obligatory to Notify LE That You Are Carrying Concealed With a Permit? - Page 7

View Poll Results: Should It Be Obligatory to Notify LE That You Are Carrying Concealed With a Permit?

Voters
87. You may not vote on this poll
  • The 39 states got it right,remain silent

    69 79.31%
  • The 10 states got it right,notify the LEO

    14 16.09%
  • Undecided

    4 4.60%
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Thread: Should It Be Obligatory to Notify LE That You Are Carrying Concealed With a Permit?

  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by BluesStringer View Post
    I honestly don't think that anyone who has come down on the "no" side of the question is referring to states where notification is mandated by law. In those jurisdictions, it doesn't matter if you notify before he runs your info or after, you don't have a choice in notifying at some point, and no one here is likely to quibble over whether or not you do it before or after your info is run. All any of us on the "no" side of the equation are saying is that if not required, keep quiet about that which is none of the cops' business by law.

    Blues
    I believe your conclusion is 100% correct.

  2.   
  3. Should It Be Obligatory to Notify LE That You Are Carrying Concealed With a P...

    Quote Originally Posted by BUmmedic View Post
    While I agree with many of the posters here, lord knows I do, I don't wish to give anyone any reason to get me on the ground and cuff me. If they wish to disarm me, fine. Disarm me. If they acknowledge my rights and leave me alone, all the better. Hopefully the audio recording will be a saving grace. If we've learned anything recently, it's that there is no trust out there. Even in places you'd least expect, law-abiding citizens have been harassed for exercising their god-given rights.

    Same argument about confiscation. If the "fell off the boat" line (or something similar) doesn't work, then I'm not going to sacrifice my life or that of my family if someone in a position of authority (not matter how incredulous it may be) comes knocking on my door and asks for my firearms. I'm not going to take the stance of "from my cold dead hands." I've got a wife and children. What good would it do to get arrested, lose my job, injured, killed, etc? What would I/they have to show for it? What position would I have left them in?

    Sorry, but although I whole-heartedly believe in the rights, I'm also a realist. If it were just me, the story might be different.
    I hear people say that a lot about having families and how would they be doing them right by being gone fighting for gun rights. But how would you be helping them out by not standing up to it? I mean the way I look at it is that if someone wants to take my guns, it's because they want control of my life (something similar to the Holocaust perhaps). So if you're going to let somebody run you and your family's lives without resisting for fear of being injured or killed, then how are you doing them any more good alive than you would be dead? And I'd much rather my family know I died doing everything I could to protect their safety and their rights. Just how far ARE you willing to let it go before you're willing to die for your family? You may have drawn your line at the point where extremes are crossed, but I've drawn mine far before that point.

  4. #63
    Here in the Socialist Republic of NY, there is no legal requirement to inform. Plus, the State and its Emperor (oops) Governor, Andrew (you don't need more than 7 bullets to kill a deer) Coumo have undertaken and illegally passed the NY SAFE ACT, under which the ultimate goal is CONFISCATION!
    Max Tresmond, of Tresmond Law, who has cases against the SAFE ACT was on the radio yesterday(10/2/2013), Tom Bauerle show on WBEN AM, speaking about the progress in the case against the NY SAFE ACT as well as the fact that he was able to obtain NY State Police "Safe Act Field Guide" which is basically a road map for the police to find ways to disqualify you from owning a gun. If disqualified for any gun, "ie: assault rifle", then you cannot own ANY gun!!!

    As part of the dialogue, the question was asked about informing an officer "as a courtesy"... Max's response was DO NOT DO IT!!! By offering that information, you have opened the door for the officer to ask about the weapon, ask to see the weapon, ask how many bullets are in the mag (7 max under SAFE ACT)...etc, etc, etc.... IF you do not answer honestly, then you raise suspicions, or more importantly, if you refuse to answer, then he/she may escalate it to failure to comply with a reasonable request of a police officer. Further, even if you state that you won't answer questions without an attorney present, then you will likely be detained (subject to search, inspection of and police temporarily relieving you of your weapon) until your attorney gets there. All because you wanted to be "courteous". Finally, because the law is written in such a way that the "definition" of an "Assault Weapon" is so wide, they can find some way to call what is likely a legal weapon "illegal" under the SAFE ACT.

    And those of you who are saying...Thank God I don't live in NY... keep in mind this is the "test case" for the rest of the nation.

    So... anyone want to keep arguing why it's "courteous" to inform?

  5. #64
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    No need to inform unless asked in this state so why do it? A properly trained officer will figure that everyone is armed and take the needed precautions. If not, then they are fools.
    NRA Certified Pistol Instructor
    NRA Certified RSO
    Normal is an illusion. What is normal to the spider is chaos to the fly.

  6. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndeyHall View Post
    I hear people say that a lot about having families and how would they be doing them right by being gone fighting for gun rights. But how would you be helping them out by not standing up to it? I mean the way I look at it is that if someone wants to take my guns, it's because they want control of my life (something similar to the Holocaust perhaps). So if you're going to let somebody run you and your family's lives without resisting for fear of being injured or killed, then how are you doing them any more good alive than you would be dead? And I'd much rather my family know I died doing everything I could to protect their safety and their rights. Just how far ARE you willing to let it go before you're willing to die for your family? You may have drawn your line at the point where extremes are crossed, but I've drawn mine far before that point.
    Again, I fully understand this makes me a bit of an extremist, probably a wacko (by modern society's standards) and assuredly there's some electrical impulses in my brain either firing too little or too much but.....

    Whether they (gubment), take my weapons or not isn't really the point... it's that I'm not going to LET them. I will resist, as best I can... if it's in the middle of the night, they'll likely get the better of me and have to put me down. If the odds are in my favor, for I know they're coming... perhaps they won't have such a nice day.

    I will remain non-violent in my dissent from this government body, I will not "fire the first shot". However, there are lines of which I am not morally prepared to allow being crossed and I will stand firm in my convictions. Let the cards fall where they may.
    Quote Originally Posted by Deanimator View Post
    [*]Don't be afraid to use sarcasm, mockery and humiliation. They don't respect you. There's no need to pretend you respect them.
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  7. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by r1derbike View Post
    I'm in one of the 10 states where it is mandated to inform upon contact. I didn't see a bullet where I could vote, "I think they got it wrong" in the 10 states.

    So, I'll just have to obey the law! It's the law!
    So, if they pass a low tomorrow that says you need to turn in all your guns, you will do it, right? remember, "Its the Law"!!!!!

  8. #67
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    Maybe so, but if for whatever reason you aren't carrying when you're pulled over then there would be no need to notify.

    Quote Originally Posted by Monkey9 View Post
    In Oklahoma you must inform the officer that you are carrying and present your permit with your drivers license. But, we know that when they check your tag for the owners name that the permit info will show up as well. They know. But you have to tell them anyways.
    Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.

    Benjamin Franklin

  9. Quote Originally Posted by Sigpa View Post
    While I live in NC which mandates notification, it would seem that if the LEO is going to know when he checks your license it would be easier to tell the officer initially and have him/her be more comfortable when coming back to your vehicle.Perhaps I am too trusting as I read the thought that it could lead to the officer handling your gun which is of course safest by remaining in your holster.
    Here's the deal. If you inform the officer that you are carrying a gun on initial contact and he has received no information from the issuing authority about your permit, he has no idea if the permit you are showing him is real and still valid or not. They don't take your word for it that your driver's license is still good just because you show it to them, they would be a fool to assume that your permit is good just because you show it to them. The officer now has reasonable suspicion that you are armed, and he has no verifiable reason to believe that you do not present a danger to him because you are armed (what would keep a criminal from just telling the officer that they were a good guy?), so you have just provided him with the legel justification needed to temporarily seize your firearm, frisk you, and inspect the area of the vehicle from which you may immediately access other weapons, all without your consent being required.

    Now, if you just keep your mouth shut, and let the officer find out from the state or other issuing authority about your permit, that has removed any justification he might have had to perform a frisk, seize a weapon, or conduct a limited search of your vehicle because he just received verifiable evidence from a government agency that would dispel any reasonable person's fear that you and your firearm would pose a danger to anyone, because that is the whole purpose behind the government requiring the permit to begin with...so they want us to believe.

    Quote Originally Posted by tattedupboy View Post
    Maybe so, but if for whatever reason you aren't carrying when you're pulled over then there would be no need to notify.
    Four of the excuses that are generally given are:
    1. It shows the officer that I am a "good guy", in other words, brownie points. I refuse to engage in behavior that encourages "guilty until proven innocent".

    2. It shows respect. Somehow. I am not sure how. Would it equally show respect if you told him about all of your other lawfully carried possessions? Seems very closely related to badge polishing to me.

    3. It is courteous. So why is the police officer owed more courtesy than anyone else? The convenience store clerk and cab driver are just hard working people trying to pay their rent and put food on their tables and want to go home safe at night. So why aren't they equally deserving of the same respect and they should be shown the permit and told about the gun too?

    4. The officer does a dangerous job and just wants to go home safe at night. Well, my sanitation expert does a dangerous job when he takes away my trash every week. Sanitation workers are more likely to be killed on the job than police are. If I showed the sanitation guy my permit and told him about my gun, would that not contribute to his safety just as much as a police officer's that has stopped me for speeding? Or the farmer that puts food on my table. Or the lumber industry workers that put a roof over my head. All occupations more likely to be killed on the job than police officers.
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

  10. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by tattedupboy View Post
    Maybe so, but if for whatever reason you aren't carrying when you're pulled over then there would be no need to notify.
    You'd THINK that WOULDN'T you?

    Unsurprisingly, there are cops (in Ohio, personal experience) who think that you should notify them EXTRA-LEGALLY when you AREN'T carrying, and MORE than enough cop groupies who push the same line.

    The one time it came up, I refused to do so, and always will.

    I obey the LAW, nothing more, nothing less.

    No phony, made up "courtesies", no fawning, servile, Renfield impressions.

    If the cop doesn't like that, let him destroy his own career and life if he likes. I'll certainly do everything I can to help him in that endeavor.

  11. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    2. It shows respect. Somehow. I am not sure how. Would it equally show respect if you told him about all of your other lawfully carried possessions? Seems very closely related to badge polishing to me.
    More to the point, if you notify cops EXTRA-LEGALLY to show respect, to whom ELSE do you show similar "respect"?

    Do you notify the girl at the counter at McDonald's? If not, WHY not? Don't you "respect" HER? Or is she some sort of lower life form, inferior to "superior" creatures like Daniel Harless...?

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