Best Distance for Pistol Target Shooting - Page 2
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Thread: Best Distance for Pistol Target Shooting

  1. Quote Originally Posted by SigShooter77 View Post
    Do you have a source for this? statutes or case law? I've never heard this before. (not disagreeing, just asking for information)
    I don't but I'll try and find it, cause I'd actually like to see it myself. I'll ask my training Captain today since he's the one who originally told me about this.

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  3. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by AndeyHall View Post
    I don't but I'll try and find it, cause I'd actually like to see it myself. I'll ask my training Captain today since he's the one who originally told me about this.
    Thanks, I appreciate it. I just read a website that basically said that you can only meet force with equal force, i.e. not escalate. Distance would seem to come into that equation in many situations. I am going to try to get my wife and me into an NRA protection outside the home course, would they cover things like this in that course?
    Steady gun, sight reference, trigger control.


  4. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by AndeyHall View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by SigShooter77 View Post
    Do you have a source for this? statutes or case law? I've never heard this before. (not disagreeing, just asking for information)
    I don't but I'll try and find it, cause I'd actually like to see it myself. I'll ask my training Captain today since he's the one who originally told me about this.
    That is just a training procedure for LEOs as a good rule of thumb to show how fast somebody with a blade can be on top of you. There is no law or policy that says you can't engage somebody at further distance. The key is that you must feel your life was in imminent danger. The farther away the attacker is, the harder it can be to articulate in court that you felt your life was in danger but there is no set distance. If somebody is throwing knives at me from 30 ft, or is at a dead out sprint at me with a hatchet from 30 feet, I'm not going to wait until I think he is within 21 feet to stop the threat. I'm engaging as soon as I feel imminent danger of death or great bodily harm.

    21 feet is just the minimum distance away a sprinting target must be for the average LEO or open carrier to be able to draw and get 2 shots off before getting stabbed, which is why it is used in training. Obviously, if your carrying concealed it will most likely take slightly longer to draw, increasing that distance.

  5. Quote Originally Posted by SigShooter77 View Post
    Thanks, I appreciate it. I just read a website that basically said that you can only meet force with equal force, i.e. not escalate. Distance would seem to come into that equation in many situations. I am going to try to get my wife and me into an NRA protection outside the home course, would they cover things like this in that course?
    I'm not sure exactly what they would cover in those courses. To be honest I'm not a huge fan of the NRA because of some of the ass backward work they've done here in SC.

    Equal force with equal force probably isn't the best way to put it because that makes it sound as if gun can only be used against gun, knife against knife, fists against fists, etc. But me being only 5'8" and 145-150lbs, I'm sure there are individuals out there who, with just fists, could justify me using deadly force. It really has nothing to do with "equal" force per se, but rather whether or not you believe yourself to be in imminent danger of great bodily harm or death. There are so many scenarios that would justify using deadly force there's no way to articulate them all, but at the same time you can take all of those deadly force scenarios and modify the situation by one very subtle detail and it may no longer be a deadly force situation. That takes judgement. The best way to practice that skill is to observe people when you're out in public. Imagine certain scenarios with certain individuals you observe and think to yourself whether deadly force would be necessary or not.

  6. #15
    In regards to the 21 feet idea...

    I can't speak for any particular state law, but I was just learning about this. It isn't actually a "law," more of a rule to go by based on the Tueller Drill. In case you haven't heard of that, a guy by the name of Dennis Tueller was teaching a self-defense handgun class, and they started talking about how far away a guy with a knife had to be to kill you before you can draw and fire. So they started timing it. The average time to draw and fire was about 1.5 seconds, and the average time it took for them to run 21 feet was also 1.5 seconds. So, if someone's got a knife and he's 21 feet away from you, deadly force is completely justified because you know he can get to you and kill you easily. I actually watched a lecture done by Dennis Tueller, and it was very interesting. He seemed kind of embarrassed by how much attention the "Tueller Drill" is getting... he wasn't planning on creating a new self-defense standard... his class had a question and he figured out how to answer it!

    Unfortunately, my references can't be cited... I learned about it from the lecture and from Kathy Jackson's Cornered Cat defensive handgun class.
    Modern Whig
    "Government is not meant to burden Liberty but rather to secure it." -T.J. O'Hara

  7. #16
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Dillner View Post
    Thank you all for this valuable input.
    Besides the EMP being a great looking piece it is very well made and SA has great customer service. (not talking about their current problem which I have no firsthand knowledge of.)
    The .40 is a good choice with the all steel frame. With only a 3" barrel it can be a handful. I decided to look up a review and found this one. You might
    find it useful. Pat's Product Review: Springfield Armory EMP 40 - SurvivalBlog.com
    NRA Life Member
    GOA Life Member
    NRA Certified RSO

  8. #17
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
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    If your concern is home defense and you are using a pistol, think about what your biggest room is, longest hallway etc. If you have a big living room, two rooms with open line of sight (kitchen/dining/living etc), or a long straight hallway it might be good to occasionally train at that distance. I have a decent size living room and a long straight hall from the back of the house that has line of sight to the front door through the living room. If I had to guess it's 30'-40', so I practice at that range occasionally with all my pistols.
    -
    Something else to consider is the barrel length of your pistol and the range that it can be expected to be accurate if someone has average shooting skills. I know that my LCP with a 2.75" barrel is not my best choice of guns available to me for that range if I have a choice. You would be surprised at what a difference in "ease of accuracy" there is by simply adding another little to the barrel. My LC9 is 3.12" and my Ruger P95 is 4.5"
    -
    The 21ft rule is as stated above regarding how long it takes to draw and fire before someone can be on you. Another thing to consider with that distance is being able to identify the actual threat. Can you see the evil in the persons eye from 21ft in poor lighting well enough for you to make a life or death decision? Just something to think about.
    Chief

  9. #18
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    Feb 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by SigShooter77 View Post
    Do you have a source for this? statutes or case law? I've never heard this before. (not disagreeing, just asking for information)
    It's not statute or case law... it is called the Tueller Drill. Studies were done that a knife wielder 21 feet away from you could charge you and stab you within 2 seconds. The Tueller drill is a drill that trains you to recognize the threat, draw and shoot Center of Mass in UNDER 2 seconds. 1.5 seconds or better is preferred.

    Here's an interesting take on the history of Dennis Tueller, the drill he came up with and this author's take on how it has morphed into sort of a "rule of thumb" for self-defense shooting.

    The Tueller Drill Revisited

    After I posted, I noticed telpinaro did a fine job of addressing this. Sorry to step on your toes telpinaro.
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote."
    ~ Benjamin Franklin (maybe)

  10. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by wolf_fire View Post

    After I posted, I noticed telpinaro did a fine job of addressing this. Sorry to step on your toes telpinaro.
    It's worth repeating Plus, you added the cool video. I didn't have a cool video.
    Modern Whig
    "Government is not meant to burden Liberty but rather to secure it." -T.J. O'Hara

  11. #20
    I've heard of the 7 yard rule of thumb before but never where it came from, thanks for the info.
    Steady gun, sight reference, trigger control.


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