Another irresponsible parent should be indicted for murder - Nevada School Shooting - Page 2
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Thread: Another irresponsible parent should be indicted for murder - Nevada School Shooting

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by HoJo View Post
    Had this teacher been armed the outcome could have been very different.
    Had the parents been responsible the outcome could have been very different too. Indict them.
    GOD, GUNS and GUITARS

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  3. #12
    I agree BC1 and most likely the kid didn't cut his way into the gunsafe. He probably took the gun from his parents bedroom.
    We all know kids are into everything liquor cabinets, medicine cabinets, illegal drugs and sex. Yes they should be held responsible for the actions of their child. The government should take off their blinders, this is not the fault of responsible gunowners, do not take away our rights for the irresponsible actions of a few grownups. I hope you agree.
    I agree, someone has to take out the trash....

  4. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by BC1 View Post
    Had the parents been responsible the outcome could have been very different too. Indict them.
    Surely you would demand that the parents not be indicted if there wasn't a criminal statute in place to indict them on, right? Here's the only statute I found in NV concerning a minor's access to firearms, and it talks only about civil liability, not criminality of the parents or legal guardians:

    NRS 41.472 Imposition of liability for minor's negligence or willful misconduct regarding firearm.

    1. If a parent, guardian or other person legally responsible for a minor under the age of 18 years:

    (a) Knows that the minor has previously been adjudicated delinquent or has been convicted of a criminal offense;

    (b) Knows that the minor has a propensity to commit violent acts; or

    (c) Knows or has reason to know that the minor intends to use the firearm for unlawful purposes,

    and permits the minor to use or possess a firearm, any negligence or willful misconduct of the minor in connection with such use or possession is imputed to the person who permits such use or possession for all purposes of civil damages, and, notwithstanding the provisions of subsection 2 of NRS 41.470, that person is jointly and severally liable with the minor for any and all damages caused by such negligence or willful misconduct.

    2. As used in this section, "firearm" has the meaning ascribed to it in NRS 202.253.
    Knowing nothing of the kid's criminal or delinquency record prior to yesterday's shootings, I can't say if that code section applies to his parents/guardians or not, but I can say that's a pretty difficult threshold to cross for most kids. The article in the OP doesn't identify the shooter or specifically say his age, but it does quote two of his "classmates" who are identified as being 12 years old. I would think only a small minority of 12 year olds would have criminal, violent, or delinquent histories that their parents/guardians even could be aware of prior to such an extreme going-off-the-rails event. If this kid falls within that rarefied category, it's going to be difficult in NV to even hold the parents/guardians civilly liable, much less indict them for a crime.

    It was a very cursory investigation that I made to find that code section. There may well be other sections upon which a criminal indictment could be based, but I found that code on the Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence website in a post entitled "Child Access Prevention Policy Summary" and that was the only law they listed in NV that has to do with access prevention of children to firearms.

    I am not trying to say that this kid's parents/guardians are responsible people. I have no earthly idea what the answer to that question is. I do know though that as early as 10 years old, I had full access in my mom's home to my .22, a pellet gun and ammo for both. Neither my mom nor the men who advised her on how to handle my deep interest in guns and competitive shooting were irresponsible people simply by virtue of leaving my stuff accessible to me. And as I said in another thread, there are several fairly recent stories where kids have defended their homes with their parents' weapons and no one was prosecuted or even criticized, so accessibility by itself is an inadequate criteria upon which to base an indictment, and NV's code section on child accessibility appears to me to preclude an indictment unless prior knowledge of the kid's evil propensities was held by the parents/guardians at the very least.

    In short, I sure as heck don't want local or federal LE or prosecutors or DoJ just making up laws to comport with an indictment they wish was already supported by existing laws. So if you say "Indict them," please also say what you would indict them on and cite the code that supports such an indictment.

    Blues
    No one has ever heard me say that I "hate" cops, because I don't. This is why I will never trust one again though: You just never know...

  5. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by HoJo View Post
    Had this teacher been armed the outcome could have been very different.



    The media has called the teacher a HERO. Had this teacher been armed & no innocent lives were lost, then he would be a hero.
    He was a martyr IMHO.
    The kids parents should be held accountable for his actions.

  6. #15
    Blues, if we can have laws holding a store responsible for selling cigarettes to minors. Then why is there not a specific law for parents to be held responsible for leaving a handgun out for their minor child to access and shoot up the school. Ultimately something has to be done concerning this ongoing problem in America. It is sad to think in our society anyone can be carrying a firearm including a two year old.
    I agree, someone has to take out the trash....

  7. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by BluesStringer View Post
    Surely you would demand that the parents not be indicted if there wasn't a criminal statute in place to indict them on, right? Here's the only statute I found in NV concerning a minor's access to firearms, and it talks only about civil liability, not criminality of the parents or legal guardians:



    Knowing nothing of the kid's criminal or delinquency record prior to yesterday's shootings, I can't say if that code section applies to his parents/guardians or not, but I can say that's a pretty difficult threshold to cross for most kids. The article in the OP doesn't identify the shooter or specifically say his age, but it does quote two of his "classmates" who are identified as being 12 years old. I would think only a small minority of 12 year olds would have criminal, violent, or delinquent histories that their parents/guardians even could be aware of prior to such an extreme going-off-the-rails event. If this kid falls within that rarefied category, it's going to be difficult in NV to even hold the parents/guardians civilly liable, much less indict them for a crime.

    It was a very cursory investigation that I made to find that code section. There may well be other sections upon which a criminal indictment could be based, but I found that code on the Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence website in a post entitled "Child Access Prevention Policy Summary" and that was the only law they listed in NV that has to do with access prevention of children to firearms.

    I am not trying to say that this kid's parents/guardians are responsible people. I have no earthly idea what the answer to that question is. I do know though that as early as 10 years old, I had full access in my mom's home to my .22, a pellet gun and ammo for both. Neither my mom nor the men who advised her on how to handle my deep interest in guns and competitive shooting were irresponsible people simply by virtue of leaving my stuff accessible to me. And as I said in another thread, there are several fairly recent stories where kids have defended their homes with their parents' weapons and no one was prosecuted or even criticized, so accessibility by itself is an inadequate criteria upon which to base an indictment, and NV's code section on child accessibility appears to me to preclude an indictment unless prior knowledge of the kid's evil propensities was held by the parents/guardians at the very least.

    In short, I sure as heck don't want local or federal LE or prosecutors or DoJ just making up laws to comport with an indictment they wish was already supported by existing laws. So if you say "Indict them," please also say what you would indict them on and cite the code that supports such an indictment.

    Blues
    A lawsuit against the parents will probably commence. There seems to be some form of contributory or comparative negligence on their part. Is the negligence of such magnitude that it rises to a criminal act? Depends on the state. But if we want to make schools safer there needs to be a lot of things done. For starters, parents need to be more responsible.
    .
    Usually one must intentionally assist, encourage or opportune the child in a crime to be convicted of contributing to the delinquency of a minor. Some states cover the parental negligence under statutes of endangering the welfare of a child. A sample definition would be...
    .
    S 260.10 Endangering the welfare of a child. A person is guilty of endangering the welfare of a child when:
    2. Being a parent, guardian or other person legally charged with the care or custody of a child less than eighteen years old, he or she fails or refuses to exercise reasonable diligence in the control of such child to prevent him or her from becoming an "abused child," a "neglected child," a "juvenile delinquent" or a "person in need of supervision," as
    those terms are defined in articles ten, three and seven of the family court act.
    .
    based on the endangerment definition I'd lock-up every ghetto parent who's young kids are hanging-out at known drug locations at 1:30 AM. We have laws that no one enforces.
    GOD, GUNS and GUITARS

  8. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by superprincess View Post
    Blues, if we can have laws holding a store responsible for selling cigarettes to minors. Then why is there not a specific law for parents to be held responsible for leaving a handgun out for their minor child to access and shoot up the school.
    There "can" be such a law, but my only point was that it doesn't appear that there is one in Nevada at this time. I could however, be mistaken about that, and as it applies to this specific case, I hope I am. I just don't want the powers that be (TPTB) to make up laws to fit an indictment that they're only bringing because of the (understandable) emotional response to another school shooting by the public. Whether the people who are so emotionally responding know it or not, they would only be hurting themselves and the future of their kids' rights to due process if TPTB succumbed to indicting the parents with no real law underpinning it.

    Quote Originally Posted by superprincess View Post
    Ultimately something has to be done concerning this ongoing problem in America. It is sad to think in our society anyone can be carrying a firearm including a two year old.
    I completely disagree that there is much of an "ongoing problem" to begin with. The thing about the 2-year-old is such a wild-card anomaly that it doesn't belong in a serious discussion about kids with guns shooting up schools. Besides, the 2-year-old that you made another thread about wasn't "carrying" a weapon, she found a loaded weapon inside her own home and the Huffington Post (!!!) post or article (whatever they call the garbage that comes from that website) that you cited didn't describe a single circumstance about what measures the mother or grandmother did or didn't take to prevent her access to the weapon. Obviously, whatever they did wasn't enough, or maybe neither one of them did a thing to prevent her access, but in any case you're calling for something to be done about an ostensibly ongoing problem while conflating the issues of children gaining access to firearms and going on a shooting spree and babies finding a gun in their own home and shooting themselves. It's hardly the same "ongoing problem," and if you study actual statistics of gun-related deaths by children at school in a multiple murder scenario, you will find that even if you eliminated every single such event over the last 30 years or so, it wouldn't move the statistic even one whole percentage point towards lowering the percentage of deaths by gunfire per 100,000 population. My perception is that most mass shootings at schools are committed by adults who either owned their guns legally or were eligible to have purchased them legally.

    The access to virtually immediate news of these kinds of events cannot be overstated as to how significant it is to the nation's collective perceptions about them. The media is so quick to try to be the first with information, that false and wholly erroneous details about a shooting and/or the shooter get disseminated nationwide in the blink of an eye, and the next week or two following the biggest events are spent correcting the record with consumers thinking to themselves, "Why did I believe those media hacks again?" People are always saying something about how big of an increase we've seen in recent years in these kinds of events. Not true. The worst school attack in US history was by Andrew Kehoe in 1927, was committed by an adult former school board member and he used bombs instead of guns to kill 44 people, 38 of whom were school children, and wound 58. Columbine and Sandy Hook combined don't even come anywhere near equaling such carnage perpetrated against children, yet we're led to believe these incidents are on the rise.

    Honestly, I don't have the answers, and I'm not here saying that we shrug our shoulders and turn away from the carnage doing nothing either, but I do know that there are literally millions of kids who either have, or had while they were comin' up (like myself), access to firearms without any injury or death caused by any of them. I grew up in suburban California and all my friends started shooting around the same time I did at age 9. Not one of the friends who have passed on since then were killed by gunfire. Accessibility is not necessarily the cause of things like what happened yesterday in NV. If all killing and crimes committed with guns could be prevented by limiting accessibility, well, everyone here knows where that train of thought goes, and it is unacceptable under any honest reading of The Constitution.

    The more kids that are taught to handle firearms safely and responsibly, the fewer incidents like the Sparks Middle School shooting will happen. Or at least the fewer children will be the shooters.

    Blues
    No one has ever heard me say that I "hate" cops, because I don't. This is why I will never trust one again though: You just never know...

  9. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by SR40c View Post
    Unless there is more information than just "The shooter took a handgun from his parents", who are any of us to say what should happen to the parents at this point? Some of you sound just like the jackasses who wanted to fry Zimmerman.
    Should a parent be responsible if their teenager were texting or driving under the influence and killed someone. We need to hold the person that did the deed responsible. Not someone that wasn't there.

  10. #19
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    If anything is to blame it's our ridiculous laws.

    Isn't it amazing that parents are severely restrained by law when it comes to disciplining or controlling their children, however, at the same time parents be held accountable for the adverse actions and behavior of said children when they destroy property or break the law. If anything is to blame it's our ridiculous laws. America, still got to love it, eh?

    ~ We Reap What We Sow, More Than What We Sow, Later Than We Sow ~
    It Is Appointed Onto Man Once To Die, And After That To Face Judgement

  11. #20
    The only reason the names are not released is because the entire family was here illegally and the media is covering it so they can focus on their Anti gun agenda and not Illegal immigration

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