Dad's lesson ends in tragedy - Page 3
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Thread: Dad's lesson ends in tragedy

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolf_fire View Post
    Good fact checking. Let me amend my faults to now it is both the 19 yo and the cops fault. If there is actual audio transmission that says, "hey we know this kid, back off" and the LEO's ignored that, they have a good deal of fault in this situation as well.
    The link that I gave in the post you're responding to goes straight to the page with the audio on it. It's a little less than 5 minutes long. No "if" about it, it's there right where I posted the time-stamp.

    However, Dad is still exonerated since he did nothing to escalate this situation.[/QUOTE]

    Dad is likely grew up in a time (and maybe a place) when trusting LE was often rewarded with results that reinforced that trust. To blame him even if that was not accurate would be more a grotesque case of blaming the victim than holding his kid wholly responsible for his own death would be. It never occurred to me to blame Dad in any way, shape, manner or form.

    Blues
    No one has ever heard me say that I "hate" cops, because I don't. This is why I will never trust one again though: You just never know...

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  3. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcreek View Post
    Even if he wasn't actively trying to run down a cop, several states have a fleeing felon law, allowing deadly force to prevent his escape. Also, if he's already rammed a cop he's shown brazen disregard for the safety of others and should be considered a danger to the public. Either of those things could have justified the shooting whether he was actively trying to hit a cop or not. They probably could have taken a different route, but legally I think the shooting was justified.
    This not the case in Iowa. It is illegal for a cop or a civilian to shoot a fleeing felon. When there is no immediate threat, deadly force is not permitted. And when a threat ends so does the right to use deadly force. We had state policeman a few years ago punished for using deadly force against a fleeing suspect suspected of drug possession. I believe it was decided by the state supreme court.

  4. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by GlassWolf View Post
    The driver of the truck was driving and acting aggressively. The officer's first duty is to defend himself. The officer acted reasonably in my opinion, if you look at things from his perspective, ignoring the back-story and only paying attention to what the officer experienced.
    I am only paying attention to what he experienced, as at 3:52 of the linked audio he was informed again that his own fellow officers "knew the suspect" and that backing off would have been the appropriate move.

    You're right. His first duty is to defend himself....against an immediate threat. The so-called threat was a vehicle that was either in Park or Neutral with the driver revving the engine of the "weapon." He wasn't a threat at the time the officer "defended himself." You don't "defend yourself" after the fact of a threat.

    I think of McPherson the same way I think of the LAPD Nazis who opened fire on the two Hispanic females while the manhunt for the large black man, Chris Dorner, was going on. Scared and pissed off over a threat to some of their own, they pulled their triggers without giving a second thought to public safety, much less a thought to protecting the public. Cops such as these should not be on the force if they can't manage the adrenaline dumps that their jobs assure will happen fairly regularly better than they did in these two examples, period.

    Blues
    No one has ever heard me say that I "hate" cops, because I don't. This is why I will never trust one again though: You just never know...

  5. #24
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    Blues you are exactly right. There is a definite attitude change in departments all around the country. I can tell you one thing for sure; there are a lot of really young cops in Iowa with a new and different attitude, dangerously aggressive.

  6. #25
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    Action-Reaction. Who's responsibility was the initial action?
    "The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities." --author and philosopher Ayn Rand (1905-1982)

  7. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by mappow View Post
    Action-Reaction. Who's responsibility was the initial action?
    Hardly the question being discussed here, mappow. The initial action was definitely the kid's. The question is the appropriateness, the legality, and even the morality of the reaction. McPherson probably passes on legality, but fails miserably as far as I'm concerned on appropriateness and morality. Conducting "policing" right on the edge of "legal" when it comes to deadly force is a practice deserving of condemnation by the public that these so-called "servants" serve. And according to buckey, who lives in IA, McPherson may have even crossed that legal line.

    Blues
    No one has ever heard me say that I "hate" cops, because I don't. This is why I will never trust one again though: You just never know...

  8. Quote Originally Posted by jcreek View Post
    Even if he wasn't actively trying to run down a cop, several states have a fleeing felon law, allowing deadly force to prevent his escape. Also, if he's already rammed a cop he's shown brazen disregard for the safety of others and should be considered a danger to the public. Either of those things could have justified the shooting whether he was actively trying to hit a cop or not. They probably could have taken a different route, but legally I think the shooting was justified.
    "Fleeing felon laws" aren't that simple. The U.S. Supreme Court ruled in Tennessee v. Garner that police must have probable cause to believe that the suspect poses a significant threat of death or serious physical injury to the officer or others before they can use deadly force, so they can't shoot merely because he's an escaping felon, he must pose a significant threat. Not all felons are a threat. But yeah, a guy trying to run you down with a 4 ton truck is a threat, but if a felon started to run away on foot and isn't threatening anyone the police would be well advised to not shoot.

  9. #28
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    I want to see pictures of the police car that got rammed. Bet there isn't much if any damage to it. Because the ramming could very well have been the cop hitting the truck and not the other way around. In traffic, the mind can make it look like you are sitting still when you aren't or even moving when you are not. Where is the dash cam video of the chase?
    NRA Certified Pistol Instructor
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  10. #29
    My opinion it sounds like the father knowingly mislead the police by saying the vehicle was stolen, when he knew his own son took it. Most likely his son would have came back home in a couple of hours. How long can you be upset over a pack of cigarettes and most likely he was going to the store to buy himself a pack of cigarettes and would probably came right back Or he was going to a buddy's house to get a cigarette. I know you guys do not want to hear this but in a round about way, ultimately the father's actions snowballed down hill and led to his son's death. He should have waited a reasonable amount of time and remained calm instead of trying to teach his son a lesson by sicing the cops on him. Also I believe the cops took extreme measures and should be sued.
    I agree, someone has to take out the trash....

  11. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by BluesStringer View Post
    Well, finding out ain't that hard......No pun intended!
    Thanks Blues, this is why your one of my favorites on usa carry :P
    I agree, someone has to take out the trash....

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