4 States Require Permission to Enter a Dwelling With a Firearm:Good Law or Bad Law? - Page 3

View Poll Results: 4 States Require Permission to Enter a Dwelling With a Firearm:Good Law or Bad Law?

Voters
57. You may not vote on this poll
  • Good Law

    4 7.02%
  • Bad Law

    46 80.70%
  • Undecided

    7 12.28%
Page 3 of 7 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 70

Thread: 4 States Require Permission to Enter a Dwelling With a Firearm:Good Law or Bad Law?

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    Again, I must ask, why is the gun different than any other lawfully possessed and carried object? Where does the politeness end? Especially if the gun is likely to be concealed anyway? Maybe part of the problem in this society is that we as gun owners treat our own firearms as something evil that we feel the need to ask people if they mind that we carry them safely in our holsters and inform police officers that we are in legal possession of them if they stop us for speeding? If you were Jewish or Muslim would it be polite to tell the friend about your religious beliefs before going in to their house?
    That last question made me smile... Yeah, you would have to tell them you're Jewish or Muslim, in case the hosts served pork!

    I know what you mean, though. A rule like that really can't be open-ended otherwise we'll have to inform if we have a letter opener. Or a pen. My main purpose in asking would be to learn the answer so I could find out their views. The answer "Of course!" tells me we have something in common and there's something fun to talk about if conversation lulls, a hesitant "Okay, I guess, if you keep it safe," tells me I have an opportunity to be an advocate and show them exactly how and why it's safe, "NO! Never in my house!" lets me know that if the visit does take place, it will be the only visit.

    Mainly, I was trying to say I understand why people would think it was polite to inform the hosts. With so many varying views, some people might feel better if they do ask first, in case a concealed gun accidentally becomes unconcealed... that's not the time you want to discover your hosts are extremely anti-gun. That's a recipe for a very uncomfortable few minutes and then leaving quickly. Heck, some might actually call the cops first and ask questions later.

    I am definitely not saying you should inform the homeowners. I'm just saying I get it if you want to. Did I clarify well enough?
    Modern Whig
    "Government is not meant to burden Liberty but rather to secure it." -T.J. O'Hara

  2.   
  3. #22
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Central Florida
    Posts
    2,004
    Quote Originally Posted by Coyote Blue View Post
    Alaska,Arkansas,Louisiana and South Carolina have the requirement,TMK.

    If there are any other states please let the forum know.
    Is this just mannerly,polite appropriate conduct notifying the dweller?
    Or just another 2A infringement?All replies are appreciated.
    I guess the answer depends of if you feel your 2A rights trump my rights as a property owner to decide what I will and will not allow on my property.
    To not stand against injustice is to stand for it.
    Don't confuse my personality and my attitude.
    My personality is who I am, my attitude depends on who you are.

  4. #23
    Just to clarify, your rights as a property owner do not extend to my person, it doesn't matter what is under a guys clothes, be it a firearm or the Victoria Secret fall collection. It isn't your right to invade my privacy, it is none of your business. If you wish to enforce your anti gun ways it is up to you to post a sign or state your rules. I don't need to give you an inventory of what is on my person when you invite me onto your property. If you post a no firearms sign or make your wishes know I am legally and morally bound to abide by them, but.......... your rules, your job to make them known.
    Time to add FireMarshall Bill to the block list.

  5. #24
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Southwest Ohio
    Posts
    3,348
    Quote Originally Posted by telpinaro View Post
    Okay, I get where it can be considered polite to ask before you bring a gun in to a friend's house, especially if it's a new friend whose views on guns you don't know.....
    I don't really agree with that. However, even if I did, it still isn't the job of government to legislate or otherwise control or regulate courtesy or politeness. So the answer would still be that this would be bad law, at least from the standpoint of it being courtesy anyway. As for private property rights that allow a property owner to set conditions for entry onto or into his property, those already exist everywhere. No additional laws are necessary in any state to make that valid, so these laws are not matters of property rights either, except as a basic underlying, general premise. These laws, as they are being presented here, are no more than a notification requirement, similar to the notification requirement that many states require concealed carriers to obey when dealing with law enforcement officers. The difference here is that a private property owner would apparently have to be notified. And I use the word "apparently" for a reason here. I'm not saying those laws don't exist, but I find it a bit strange that I haven't heard about them until now. I don't have time to do any in depth investigation of their statutes right now, but I know I've traveled through at least two of those states with a firearm before and I check concealed carry laws before I travel. I've never heard of those restrictions. Retail establishments are private property as well, and since such a law would require you to ask permission to enter a store with your gun, you'd think something like that would be well publicized in the places where people go to research restrictions for travel, such as handgunlaw.us. I'm wondering if maybe something hasn't been misinterpreted here.
    Posterity: you will never know how much it has cost my generation to preserve your freedom. I hope you will make good use of it.--- John Quincy Adams
    Condensed Guide To Ohio Concealed Carry Laws

  6. #25
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Central Florida
    Posts
    2,004
    Quote Originally Posted by Warbirds View Post
    Just to clarify, your rights as a property owner do not extend to my person, it doesn't matter what is under a guys clothes, be it a firearm or the Victoria Secret fall collection. It isn't your right to invade my privacy, it is none of your business. If you wish to enforce your anti gun ways it is up to you to post a sign or state your rules. I don't need to give you an inventory of what is on my person when you invite me onto your property. If you post a no firearms sign or make your wishes know I am legally and morally bound to abide by them, but.......... your rules, your job to make them known.
    By the use of the term 'dwelling' and the standard definition of the word 'dwelling' I will assume that the OP is referring to a home, not a privately owned business that is open to the public. In that light, your argument is non sequitur since you would not have reason to come into my home. People coming into my home follow my rules or they leave. As a home owner I have the final say who does and does not enter and what they can and cannot have on their person. Plain and simple. Just curious if you feel different about people coming into your home?
    To not stand against injustice is to stand for it.
    Don't confuse my personality and my attitude.
    My personality is who I am, my attitude depends on who you are.

  7. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhino View Post
    I don't really agree with that. However, even if I did, it still isn't the job of government to legislate or otherwise control or regulate courtesy or politeness. ... ...
    Just to clarify... again... I said I get why people would consider it polite to ask before bringing a gun in. Not that I think anybody should have to. And I did mention the law was rather silly. If it was meant to be common courtesy, that shouldn't have to be a law.
    Modern Whig
    "Government is not meant to burden Liberty but rather to secure it." -T.J. O'Hara

  8. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhino View Post
    I don't really agree with that. However, even if I did, it still isn't the job of government to legislate or otherwise control or regulate courtesy or politeness. So the answer would still be that this would be bad law, at least from the standpoint of it being courtesy anyway. As for private property rights that allow a property owner to set conditions for entry onto or into his property, those already exist everywhere. No additional laws are necessary in any state to make that valid, so these laws are not matters of property rights either, except as a basic underlying, general premise. These laws, as they are being presented here, are no more than a notification requirement, similar to the notification requirement that many states require concealed carriers to obey when dealing with law enforcement officers. The difference here is that a private property owner would apparently have to be notified. And I use the word "apparently" for a reason here. I'm not saying those laws don't exist, but I find it a bit strange that I haven't heard about them until now. I don't have time to do any in depth investigation of their statutes right now, but I know I've traveled through at least two of those states with a firearm before and I check concealed carry laws before I travel. I've never heard of those restrictions. Retail establishments are private property as well, and since such a law would require you to ask permission to enter a store with your gun, you'd think something like that would be well publicized in the places where people go to research restrictions for travel, such as handgunlaw.us. I'm wondering if maybe something hasn't been misinterpreted here.
    Here is the law for Arkansas:

    http://handgunlaw.us/states/arkansas.pdf

    Provided, no sign shall be required for private homes, and any licensee entering a private home shall
    notify the occupants that he is carrying a concealed handgun
    Here is Alaska:

    http://handgunlaw.us/states/alaska.pdf

    B)
    that is concealed on the person within the residence of another person unless the person
    has first obtained the express permission of an adult residing there to bring a concealed deadly
    weapon within the residence
    Here is Louisiana:

    http://handgunlaw.us/states/louisiana.pdf

    . Furthermore, a permittee may not carry a
    concealed handgun into the private
    residence of another without first receiving the consent of that person. Additionally, the blood alcohol
    reading of the permittee must not exceed .05% or greater by weight of alcohol in the blood.
    And lastly South Carolina:

    http://handgunlaw.us/states/southcarolina.pdf

    Carrying concealed weapons into residences or dwellings. No person who holds a permit issued
    pursuant to Article 4, Chapter 31, Title 23 may carry a concealable weapon into the residence or
    dwelling place of another person without the express permission of the owner or person in legal
    control or possession, as appropriate
    So we can clearly see that in all 4 states, we are dealing with residences or "dwellings", not business establishments.

  9. #28
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Republic of Dead Cell Holler, Occupied Territories of AL, former USA
    Posts
    7,414
    Quote Originally Posted by walt629 View Post
    By the use of the term 'dwelling' and the standard definition of the word 'dwelling' I will assume that the OP is referring to a home, not a privately owned business that is open to the public. In that light, your argument is non sequitur since you would not have reason to come into my home. People coming into my home follow my rules or they leave. As a home owner I have the final say who does and does not enter and what they can and cannot have on their person. Plain and simple. Just curious if you feel different about people coming into your home?
    I think Warbirds is right, and I don't think he was referring to a commercial premesis. He was saying that it is your obligation to make your rules known before an armed person *can* violate them by entering without disarming. You can either post a sign or verbally inform every individual who crosses your threshold, but you can't hold them responsible for any violation of your rules that you didn't make them aware of.

    This question always ends up in an endless circle. One poster says, "My house, my rules, disarm or leave now." Another poster asks, "So you ask every individual who comes to your door if they're packin'?" Poster #1: "No, but out of respect they should ask if I mind if they're armed." Poster #2: "I never tell anybody I'm armed. Concealed means concealed. It's your obligation to inform visitors to your property what your rules are." Poster #1: "I never tell anybody about what I do for home security." Neither poster will tell the other what either of them needs to know to show the "respect" we're discussing here, and so the argument just starts down another cycle of the circle.

    It's not like any of us old-timers don't already know each others' positions on this. It's been discussed to the point of name-calling before. I put two people on Ignore thanks to that thread. Oh boy! Let's do this again! NOT.

    Blues
    No one has ever heard me say that I "hate" cops, because I don't. This is why I will never trust one again though: You just never know...

  10. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Warbirds View Post
    Just to clarify, your rights as a property owner do not extend to my person, it doesn't matter what is under a guys clothes, be it a firearm or the Victoria Secret fall collection. It isn't your right to invade my privacy, it is none of your business. If you wish to enforce your anti gun ways it is up to you to post a sign or state your rules. I don't need to give you an inventory of what is on my person when you invite me onto your property. If you post a no firearms sign or make your wishes know I am legally and morally bound to abide by them, but.......... your rules, your job to make them known.
    They do on my property. Your option is to click your heals, do a precision about face and get the hell off my property if you choose not to abide by my rules. Never sent anyone packing because they were exercising their 2A rights, but I sure as hell have when they thought they could exercise their 1A rights.

    It's a real simple concept. My ******* property, my ******* rules.
    “Religion is an insult to human dignity. Without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things.
    But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.” ― Steven Weinberg

  11. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by XD40scinNC View Post
    They do on my property. Your option is to click your heals, do a precision about face and get the hell off my property if you choose not to abide by my rules. Never sent anyone packing because they were exercising their 2A rights, but I sure as hell have when they thought they could exercise their 1A rights.

    It's a real simple concept. My ******* property, my ******* rules.
    Your concept is simple but your comprehension is sub par. No where did I disagree with you wanting your rules followed on your property, I said once you made your rules clear, the point being it is your responsibility to make your rules clear, then like I said I am legally bound too abide by them on your property. And like others said I will leave.

    But that gives you no right to invade my privacy PERIOD. Your anti gun mentality doors not nullify my rights to privacy nor does it nullify my second ammendment right. You have no right to know what is on my person. It just makes me in violation of a law you have no authority to enforce. The most you can do is call the police.

    That is just about as ugly as things could get, like I said it would be fine once you made your anti gun wishes known, you could let me know if my tail lights work or not. But I will not be asking permission or self reporting to make you feel warm and fuzzy. Maybe this is one benefit of open carry, it puts the cards on the table and filters out your anti gun friends.


    Walt, does that answer your question?


    Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk
    Time to add FireMarshall Bill to the block list.

Page 3 of 7 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Quantcast