training
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  1. #1

    training

    here is something a good many gun owners should consider

    The Moat Group ? Without Training, You Are Just Pretending

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  3. #2
    2Awarrior Guest
    That's cool.

  4. #3
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    From the article:

    I am a firm believer that without training on the weapon you carry…you are MORE dangerous to yourself and loved ones than you were when you didn’t have one.
    And I am a firm believer that this guy is talking out his ass. He gives no stats or cites to back up this bold claim. Many people buy their first weapon after growing up in a home where they were around them and used them since they were children. Just because you're not a highly-trained freakin' gun-Ninja doesn't make you MORE dangerous than before you acquired one. Utter and complete nonsense right off the bat.

    More:

    Far too many folks are under the impression that by buying and carrying a blade and/or firearm now makes them more prepared or more inclined to defend themselves.
    Uh....yeah dude, that's what a lot of people think.......because it's true! You're completely unprepared to defend yourself with a weapon if you don't even have one, and you are literally infinitely *more* prepared by acquiring one than before you had it. As far as being "inclined," I would say that anyone who acquires a weapon for self defense is at least inclined to defend themselves, even if not very knowledgeable about tactics to accomplish that end. This guy obviously doesn't even understand the words he's using.

    This mindset is like assuming you know how to play guitar by simply going to the store and buying one.
    Well yeah, it's "like assuming" that if you're planning on using your newly-purchased guitar as a weapon. This guy is an idiot.

    Is it easier to go down to the store, buy a blade, and tuck it in the pants than it is to research training classes then travel to and participate in it? Of course. However, if the day ever came that you had to employ your weapon to defend yourself or a loved one…you fall to your level of training….if you have no training….well you see my point.
    No, I don't see your point, except to say that you seem to consider yourself a freakin' Ninja, so far above the uninitiated masses that you should tell them how useless the knife they bought for umm....cutting things is if they don't have some Super-Ninja training in umm....cutting things.

    I've been collecting knives since I was a kid, and been a serious collector for about 10 to 12 years now, I go to the Blade Show every year, I network, trade, buy and sell with other serious collectors, and I literally don't know a soul who buys their knives with the intention of them being weapons. Even most military applications for knives are not hand-to-hand combat, they're mostly for hard utilitarian uses.

    If you truly care for the loved ones you claim you are protecting, you will make it a priority to seek training (blade and firearm alike). In this day and age with an abundance of training institutions and experience offerings in the marketplace THERE IS NO EXCUSE.
    Uh, sure thing hot-rod. Poor people should not be allowed to defend their lives with weapons because they can't afford the type of training you're referring to. After all, THERE IS NO EXCUSE, right? Infirm people should likewise not buy a weapon because they don't have the physical abilities necessary to complete the kind of training this arrogant simp is talking about. After all, THERE IS NO EXCUSE, right?

    I've got absolutely nothing against people seeking training. I highly recommend and encourage it even. But when people start throwing around declarative statements about someone who hasn't sought the kind of advanced (and expensive) training this guy is talking about being MORE dangerous to their loved ones and others around them, and he includes exactly zero statistical data, or even anecdotal stories, to back it up, he's going well beyond encouragement and into outright lying to people to get them to believe that his opinions are worthy of being taken as fact.

    I looked at the "About" page and notice that the group of posters are generally current and ex-military, overseas contract security, airline security etc. Great, their employers pay for, and even require, the level of training this guy says that the average CC'er or OC'er on the street has NO EXCUSE not to acquire. He needs a little training in putting his feet in other peoples' shoes, because there are myriad reasons (or "excuses" in this idiot's mind) why people won't and can't acquire the kind of training he's talking about.

    I learned nothing from the piece except that there are people who blog while not having a clue what they're talking about, just as there are people who carry and aren't as knowledgeable about tactics and safety as they could be, but, and this is key, in both cases, they still have the right to engage in the activity. This guy wants to take advantage of his right to talk while clueless, but judge others as MORE dangerous who carry and don't spend every last dime in never-ending training.

    Blues
    No one has ever heard me say that I "hate" cops, because I don't. This is why I will never trust one again though: You just never know...

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by BluesStringer View Post
    From the article:



    And I am a firm believer that this guy is talking out his ass. He gives no stats or cites to back up this bold claim. Many people buy their first weapon after growing up in a home where they were around them and used them since they were children.
    [balance of illogical rant ignored]


    how ironic a complaint about someone who gives no stats or cites to back up his bold claims is made with a statement that has no stats or cites to back it up. I grew up in NYC I never saw a gin in the wild until I was 14.
    would you operate a crane without training?

  6. Quote Originally Posted by BluesStringer View Post
    And I am a firm believer that this guy is talking out his ass. He gives no stats or cites to back up this bold claim. Many people buy their first weapon after growing up in a home where they were around them and used them since they were children. Just because you're not a highly-trained freakin' gun-Ninja doesn't make you MORE dangerous than before you acquired one. Utter and complete nonsense right off the bat.
    Growing up in a home where firearms are owned and used you will at the minimum recieve some type of safety training, did your parents just hand you a gun and say have at it?

    However safety training does not teach you to use a firearm in self defense niether does shooting geese.
    We don't smoke marijuana in Muskogee, we don't take our trips on LSD. We don't burn our draft cards Down on Main Street. 'Cause we like livin' right and being free.

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by apvbguy View Post
    here is something a good many gun owners should consider

    The Moat Group ? Without Training, You Are Just Pretending

    True, too many people stop training after their NRA class. Look at how many innocent people the NYPD shoots every time their gun comes out of their holsters! But to be fair, somebody that's been going to the range for a year shooting with their eyes closed would probably hit less innocent people. Those cops scare the crap out of me. I wonder if in the academy if they actually have targets they have to qualify on, or if they just time team mag dumps?

  8. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by apvbguy View Post
    would you operate a crane without training?
    Funny you should ask. I was a sign hanger for four years and started learning how to run the crane my first day on the job. I was in the bucket with remote controls that afternoon....by myself, plug-welding a chill-ring on the lowest section of a 200 ft. freeway sign.

    I not only would operate a crane without any formal training, I have, and nobody got hurt or died, including me or my co-workers, and most importantly, the job got done on time.

    So as a sign hanger, would I be MORE prepared to hang a sign with access to the crane, or LESS prepared? Would a new gun owner be MORE prepared to defend himself with a gun, or LESS prepared? How about being LESS inclined as your "Moat" writer implies? They're all the same question; are you MORE or LESS prepared (or inclined) to use a tool for its intended use if you have it in your possession and control, or if you don't? It only sounds like a stupid question because your Moat-writer promulgated such a stupid premise.

    You need as much work on your analogies as your Moat-writer needs in writing something that makes a lick of sense.

    Blues
    No one has ever heard me say that I "hate" cops, because I don't. This is why I will never trust one again though: You just never know...

  9. #8
    Training is a very good thing. Personally, I think it is amazingly fun, and will probably never consider myself "fully" trained. Does that mean my son is safer if I leave my gun at home because I don't have the amount of training that guy thinks I should have? Definitely not. Training is very expensive, and I can't afford nearly as much as I want. Lots might be available... but that doesn't make it affordable. I save, I take classes when I can. And I carry.

    Mandating training, or insisting that everyone MUST HAVE expensive training, NO EXCUSE, before being able to defend themselves isn't fair. There are plenty of people who can't use OC spray or stun guns or the like, but can effectively use a gun.

    Incidentally, what exactly does the Moat Group do? They're consultants and bloggers?
    Modern Whig
    "Government is not meant to burden Liberty but rather to secure it." -T.J. O'Hara

  10. Without actually knowing the individual, I couldn't say that I know more about firearms than the trainer BUT I do know my experience. I'm fully confident in my gun handling capabilities. I also realize there are many new(and not so new) gun owner who need to acquire knowledge in some way.

  11. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by telpinaro View Post
    Incidentally, what exactly does the Moat Group do? They're consultants and bloggers?
    Here's a link to their "About" page. If what they say there is to be believed, they are generally legitimate higher-end security and military types. The problem is, at least concerning the writer of the piece, they seem to be rather elitist in their legitimacy, in that they can't imagine someone not having as much training as most of them get paid to acquire. For us normal folk, like you allude to, it's the other way around - we have to pay, and pay dearly, to get that level of training. That's my knock on the piece. I have no reason to disbelieve that most of them are very well-trained, and certainly don't believe that training is a bad thing. I just don't like elitists talking down their noses to tell us normal folk that we have "NO EXCUSE" to not be as well trained as they are.

    Blues
    No one has ever heard me say that I "hate" cops, because I don't. This is why I will never trust one again though: You just never know...

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