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Thread: Not all liberals hate guns!

  1. Quote Originally Posted by festus View Post
    Conservative Agendas (as defined by party political stances)
    1. Promotes smaller governement
    2. Promotes personal responsibility
    3. Anti abortion
    4. Pro Gun
    5. Anti Same Sex Marriage
    6. Want less welfare handouts as a means of helping smaller budget and government
    7. More likely to be Pro military

    Liberal Agendas (as defined by party political stances)
    1. Promote larger government
    2. Promotes a "I'm a victim of the system mentality"
    3. Pro Abortion
    4. Anti Gun
    5. Pro Same sex Marriage
    6. Promise more welfare handouts at election time
    7. More likely to be Anti military

    These are the guidelines that America seems to stick upon during the election process
    I love the spin you can work into these things. Lemme try!

    1. Promotes strong domestic programs that have bearing on the lives of individual citizens.
    2. Promotes responsibility of society for all its members.
    3. Pro Choice
    4. Pro Second Amendment, Pro Gun Owner responsibility.
    5. Supports the right of all people to pursue happiness.
    6. Believe that spending billions to kill, over millions to heal is wrong.
    7. Support our troops and believe in the sovereignty of all nations.

    1. Talks about smaller gov't when out of power, pumps it up when in power.
    2. Promote personal responsibility of others.
    3. Anti individual rights, pro parentless children born into poverty or abuse.
    4. Believe the second amendment means every citizen has a right to purchase weapons equivalent to the military, including nukes, at the local fast food drive through.
    5. Supports government sanctioned discrimination and majority denial of the rights of a minority.
    6. Willing to spend billions to prepare for the violation of other nations sovereignty, not willing to spend 1 dime of "my tax dollars!!!" to help those in need.
    7. Not only pro military, but pro throwing our weight around against other nations to force them to our own agendas. No matter how many young American men have to die for it.

    Ah, don't we all feel better having belittled the beliefs of others! Next time lets talk about what Jesus would do!!

  3. #22
    1. Promotes strong domestic programs that have bearing on the lives of individual citizens.
    2. Promotes responsibility of society for all its members.
    3. Pro Choice
    4. Pro Second Amendment, Pro Gun Owner responsibility.
    5. Supports the right of all people to pursue happiness.
    6. Believe that spending billions to kill, over millions to heal is wrong.
    7. Support our troops and believe in the sovereignty of all nations.

    Don't items #3 & #6 sort of clash?

    And #2 looks like it should be interpreted "pro-socialist".

    As for #7, if Liberals support sovereignty, why are they so willing to give it up?
    "When the outflow exceeds the inflow, the upkeep becomes the downfall"

  4. I suppose 3 and 6 would clash to a conservative. From my perspective 6 involves the lives of many. The only life involved in 3 of course is that of the pregnant individual.

    #2, socialism is not a bad word.

    #7, totally irrelevant comment based on a personal opinion and not the actual belief of this liberal or those liberals I am closest too.

  5. #24
    boyzoi Guest
    Im guessing that billions to kill is refering to the military, not abortion......who can say.
    50 million babies killed and billions spent by libs to promote how good that is for society and the protection of rights....could be that I guess.
    but lets get rid of the military then we can spend it all on killing babies.

  6. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by boyzoi View Post
    Im guessing that billions to kill is refering to the military, not abortion......who can say.
    50 million babies killed and billions spent by libs to promote how good that is for society and the protection of rights....could be that I guess.
    but lets get rid of the military then we can spend it all on killing babies.
    I agree with you but trying to reason with a person that thinks killing babies is o.k. or that there is nothing wrong with socialism is a waist of time. Just my 2 cents worth.
    By faith Noah,being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear,prepared an ark to the saving of his house;by the which he condemned the world,and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith Heb.11:7

  7. #26
    boyzoi Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by HK4U View Post
    I agree with you but trying to reason with a person that thinks killing babies is o.k. or that there is nothing wrong with socialism is a waist of time. Just my 2 cents worth.
    ehhhh...after the Jesus remark she went on the iggy list.

  8. Guys, thats the sort of blindness I mentioned in another post.

    First, our standing military is very much a socialist program. As well as public police, fire protection, the mail, social security, the FDIC, and many many other long standing services / organizations in the US. Socialism is not any worse or any better than capitalism in moderation and either in an extreme is very dangerous.

    Second, I've never killed a baby or spent money on killing a baby. Comparatively speaking, our government spends nothing on abortion (which is not baby killing) compared to what is spent on weapons of war.

    If its truly is a moral decision regarding life, then why is it so uncompromisable to spend a little less on killing outside our borders and a little more on helping those that live within our borders (including these unborn "babies")? How many "pro-life" organizations are bombed or sniped by liberal uninvolved third-parties that wish to force under threat of death others to surrender to their will?

    What part of being a good christian dictates that killing your enemy and sending them to hell is better than turning the other cheek under gods protection when all you have to risk is going to heaven?

    Really, my stomach turned for 8 years under W. A man who at best garnered less than 50% of the electorate and at worst stole the election in 2000. I was blocks away down Hudson Ave on 9-11 and never felt that the best thing to do would be to attack Iraq. I've seen my tax dollars spent on a military build-up, civil liberty violations, individual discrimination, and to bail out wealthy bankers. Never in that time did I say build a bunker, stock up on ammo, buy more weapons, live in fear. Obama hasn't even taken office and this site is full of that sentiment.

    I believe in the second amendment because I believe in the rights of individuals. Though I felt it was a bit far reaching I support the Heller decision and haven’t ranted that we need to stack the court and over turn it. I believe in the American system, in spite of our many short comings because in the end it works.

    Conservatives are slaves to their own fears. All of this Obama backlash is proof that conservative, bible beating, Republicans don’t truly have the confidence in the Constitution that it deserves. Maybe that because in the end it really is about the limits it places on them to hold others down.

  9. #28
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Florida Panhandle

    What's the difference between socialism and communism?

    One War!

  10. #29
    Amen, brother!

    Your posts along this thread have been both pleasently light-hearted and poignantly serious. I agree with you completely that Obama's election does not mean the end of America as we know it. For the first time in my life, I am excited about our nation's future rather than fearful. I believe in our system of government and I believe in our Constitution. I also believe that our nation now has the opportunity to return to the greatness it once had, a greatness that has been ebbing significantly over the last 8 years (and maybe before that). I think Obama will bring balance back to our government and equality back to our social and international policies. I also think he will work to protect all of our civil rights, not just those that he decides he likes.

    If we do have to build a bomb shelter, will you hang out in mine?
    Husky Girl

  11. #30
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Florida Panhandle

    Exclamation Are you high?

    Quote Originally Posted by bryarush View Post
    I love the spin you can work into these things. Lemme try!

    Ah, don't we all feel better having belittled the beliefs of others! Next time lets talk about what Jesus would do!!
    We could never buy nukes...We were not given most favored nation status by William Jefferson Clinton

    As far as what would Jesus do let's see.

    Perhaps we could start with the fact that he came to fulfill the law of Moses. (you know that whole ten commandments thing that a handfull of Athiest creeps got booted out of most courthouses (it made for a hostile workplace environment for the ACLU)

    The Bible and self-defense
    Posted: November 26, 2001
    1:00 am Eastern

    By Joseph Farah

    The Bible couldn't be clearer on the right even the duty we have as believers to self-defense.

    Let's start in the Old Testament.

    "If a thief be found breaking up, and be smitten that he die, there shall no blood be shed for him," we are told in Exodus 22:2. The next verse says, "If the sun be risen upon him, there shall be blood shed for him; for he should make full restitution; if he have nothing, then he shall be sold for his theft."

    In other words, it was perfectly OK to kill a thief breaking into your house. That's the ultimate expression of self-defense. It doesn't matter whether the thief is threatening your life or not. You have the right to protect your home, your family and your property, the Bible says.

    The Israelites were expected to have their own personal weapons. Every man would be summoned to arms when the nation confronted an enemy. They didn't send in the Marines. The people defended themselves.

    In 1 Samuel 25:13, we read: "And David said unto his men, Gird ye on every man his sword. And they girded on every man his sword; and David also girded on his sword: and there went up after David about four hundred men; and two hundred abode by the stuff."

    Every man had a sword and every man picked it up when it was required.

    Judges 5:8 reminds us of what happens to a foolish nation that chooses to disarm: "They chose new gods; then was war in the gates: was there a shield or spear seen among forty thousand in Israel?"

    The answer to the rhetorical question is clear: No. The people had rebelled against God and put away their weapons of self-defense.

    "Blessed be the LORD my strength which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight," David writes in Psalms 144:1.

    Clearly, this is not a pacifist God we serve. It's God who teaches our hands to war and our fingers to fight. Over and over again throughout the Old Testament, His people are commanded to fight with the best weapons available to them at that time.

    And what were those weapons? Swords.

    They didn't have firearms, but they had sidearms. In fact, in the New Testament, Jesus commanded His disciples to buy them and strap them on. Don't believe me? Check it out.

    Luke 22:36: "Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one."

    I know. I know. You biblically literate skeptics are going to cite Matthew 26:52-54 how Jesus responded when Peter used his sword to cut off the ear of a servant of the high priest: "Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword. Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels? But how then shall the scriptures be fulfilled, that thus it must be?"

    Read those verses in context and they support my position. Jesus told Peter he would be committing suicide to choose a fight in this situation as well as undermining God's plan to allow Jesus' death on the cross and resurrection.

    Jesus told Peter to put his sword in its place at his side. He didn't say throw it away. After all, He had just ordered the disciples to arm themselves. The reason for the arms was obviously to protect the lives of the disciples, not the life of the Son of God. What Jesus was saying was: "Peter, this is not the right time for a fight."

    In the context of America's current battle as we make plans to rebuild after the devastation of Sept. 11 and defend ourselves at the same time we should recall Nehemiah, who rebuilt the walls of Jerusalem.

    "They which builded on the wall, and they that bare burdens, with those that laded, every one with one of his hands wrought in the work, and with the other hand held a weapon," we're told in Nehemiah 4:17-18. "For the builders, every one had his sword girded by his side, and so builded."

    Any more questions, skeptics?


    Ten Bible Reasons Why It Is Wrong
    Prior to the Roe vs. Wade Supreme Court decision of 1973, about 500,000 illegal abortions were occurring per year. By 1975, over 1,000,000 babies were being aborted in the United States. Today, about 1,500,000 abortions occur each year. That's over 4000 per day, and nearly three per minute!
    Ninety-three percent of the abortions in America are for convenience. The mother's health is an issue only three percent of the time, and the baby's health is an issue only three percent of the time. Rape or incest are issues only one percent of the time. Ninety-three percent of all abortions in America are performed just because someone doesn't want a child!

    There are four basic types of abortion being performed in America today, while two more types may be added in the near future.

    First, there's the suction type abortion. This is where the unborn child is literally vacuumed from the mother's womb during the early stages of pregnancy.

    The currette-type abortion is where the child is cut from the mother's womb with a spoon-like object.

    A third type is similar to a Caesarean operation. The baby is surgically removed from the mother and allowed to suffocate, because the child's lungs aren't developed.

    The fourth type of abortion is the Salt Brine technique. With this method, the unborn child is literally "pickled" to death by the injection of a strong salt solution. A few days after the injection the child is still born.

    There is currently much debate about partial-birth abortions. This is where a child is partially delivered, then stabbed in the skull to have his or her brains sucked out.

    There is also much talk about the RU-486 abortion pill from France, also called "mifepristione" in America. This pill works by inhibiting pregnancy hormones, and is normally used within seven weeks from conception. At the present time, mifepristone is illegal in the U.S., but there is much political pressure to make it legal.
    Abortion Is An Act of Murder
    In reference to pregnant women, the term "with child" occurs twenty-six times in the Bible. The term "with fetus" never occurs once.

    In Luke chapter one, verses 36 and 41, we are told that Elisabeth conceived a "son" and that the "babe" leaped in her womb. God does not say that a "fetus" leaped in her womb! He says THE BABE leaped. This is the exact same word that God uses to describe Christ in the manger AFTER He is born (Luke 2:12, 16). In God eyes, an unborn babe and a newborn babe are the same. They are both living human beings!

    Dear reader, please answer a question: What is an "infant?" Get the answer in your mind and keep it there for a moment. Do you have it? Okay, please consider Job 3:16: "Or as an hidden untimely birth I had not been; as infants which never saw light." Did you see that? Job referred to unborn children as INFANTS. Not fetuses! Not masses of tissue! INFANTS! In God's eyes, an unborn child is a living human baby. God never says once that an unborn child is anything less than a human being.

    David said in Psalm 51:5, "Behold, I was shapen in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me." He did not say that a fetus was shapen in iniquity and conceived in iniquity. David, speaking under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, said that HE was conceived. David, not a blob of tissue, was conceived.

    The same is the case in Psalm 139:13-16:

    "For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother's womb. I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well. My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth. Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them."

    Who was in the womb? David! A literal and living person. The Bible never uses anything less than human terms to describe the unborn.

    Notice that in Jeremiah 1:5 we are told that God KNEW Jeremiah:"Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations."

    To further confirm the fact that God views the unborn child as a person, please consider Exodus 21:22-23:

    "If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine. And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life,"

    If the woman has a premature birth and the child lives ("no mischief follows"), then there's no death penalty. However, if the child dies (or the woman dies) God says the death penalty applies: "thou shalt give life for life." Why would God require the death penalty if He didn't consider the unborn child to be a human being?

    Friend, like it or not, God says that life begins at conception, and the unborn child is a human being.

    But the Bible isn't alone in declaring this truth. Science also declares that an unborn child is just as much an independent human being as you. The original human cell consists of 46 chromosomes, 23 from each parent. At no point during pregnancy does the mother contribute any new cells to the child. The original cell divides itself and multiplies to provide development and growth for the child. Scientifically speaking, the child is just as independent at six months before birth as he will be six months after birth. Yes, the mother does provide nourishment to the unborn child, but she also provides nourishment to the newborn child!

    At two weeks pregnancy, the "fetus" can move alone. By four weeks the child has limbs, muscle tissue, a heart and heartbeat. Ears, eyes, and small hands are visible by the fifth week. The child responds to touch sensations by the sixth or seventh week. At eight weeks, the baby sometimes tries to take a breath when removed from the mother. At twelve weeks, the child will often struggle for life two or three hours when removed from the mother.

    Friend, abortion is wrong because abortion is MURDER!

    Abortion Involves the Shedding of Innocent Blood

    Proverbs 6:16-17 says that God HATES those who shed innocent blood! Deuteronomy 27:25 says, "Cursed be he that taketh reward to slay an innocent person. And all the people shall say, Amen."

    Who could possibly be more innocent than an unborn baby?! Yet, our society has become so wicked that it condones the slaying of 1.5 million innocent children every year. The Bible says that God HATES people who do this.

    Abortion Is A Violation of the Golden Rule

    In Matthew 7:12, the Lord Jesus Christ said, "Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets."

    Would it be your desire to suffer and die while someone traps you in a cage and literally tears your arms and legs from your body?

    Abortion is a violation of the golden rule.

    Abortion Attempts To Destroy A Work of God

    "I know that, whatsoever God doeth, it shall be for ever: nothing can be put to it, nor any thing taken from it: and God doeth it, that men should fear before him." (Ecc. 3:14)

    God is eternal, so His work is also eternal. Abortion is an attempt to do away with unwanted people--an attempt to make a liar out of God by bringing an end to His work. However, Jesus said you can destroy a person's BODY, but not their SOUL (Mat. 10:28). Parent, if you've had an abortion, your aborted child is in Heaven right now, because you only destroyed the body!

    Abortion Often Brings Shame, Heartache, and Deep Regret

    After his sin with Bathsheba, King David confessed these words to God: "For I acknowledge my transgressions: and my sin is ever before me." (Psa. 51:3) David was living under constant conviction and regret for what he had done. He couldn't get away from it!

    Most women who decide to have an abortion spend the rest of their lives regretting it. Are you thinking about an abortion? I challenge you to visit with some woman who have had abortions. Ask them if they would do it again. Ask them if they have any regrets.

    In the book, The Christian and Social Issues, by Tom Wallace, a reference is made to a full page Washington Post ad, dated June 13, 1983. A lady who had undergone a saline abortion six months earlier describes the mental torments that she now suffers every day. She speaks of her "...everyday hell of never hearing a baby cry without crying within myself; counting days to see how old the baby would have been; wondering what contributions my baby would have made to our desperate society; and wondering if there will ever be another chance for motherhood."

    Of the abortion itself, the lady recalls, "...sitting in a crowded waiting room studying each others fearful, anxious faces...signing death certificates for what is very much alive within you...seeing crying women given tranquilizers and sent home to recuperate and try to forget."

    Abortion is wrong because it brings shame, heartache, and deep regret.

    Abortion Disannuls A Plan of God

    If God allows a child to be conceived, then God obviously has a plan for that child. Mary's parents didn't know that she'd give birth to the Savior of the world, but she did. God has a plan for unborn children (Jer. 1:5; Lk. 1:13-17; Gen. 4:25; Jud. 13:3-5), so to abort an unborn child is to stop a plan of God.

    Abortion De-values Human Life

    God created man to be the highest form of life on earth (Gen. 1:26-28). Human life is very precious to God. In fact, it is so precious that God Himself instituted the Death Penalty for anyone who takes the life of another (Exo. 21:12; Num. 35). God places great value on human life!

    However, abortion promotes the message that life is NOT so valuable, and that man can do as he pleases with it. How long will it be before our nation decides that the killing of elderly people and sick people is justifiable? Why stop there? How long will it be before it becomes lawful to kill Bible believers who refuse to conform to the world system? It won't be as long as you may think (Rev. 13:16-18; Rev. 20:4). Abortion devalues human life, and it pushes our nation a step closer to that wicked day when it becomes lawful to murder innocent people.

    Abortion Shows A Lack of Natural Affection

    Paul tells us in 2 Timothy 3:3 that the last days will be characterized by people who lack "natural affection."

    I believe the pro-abortion movement is a perfect example of this. It is NATURAL to conceive a child, grow to love that child, take care of the child during pregnancy, give birth to the child, and then raise the child with the best care possible. That's the natural process that God has ordained. It is NOT natural to kill the child! To commit such an act is to show a lack of natural affection, which is sin.

    Abortion Encourages Sin

    "Because sentence against an evil work is not executed speedily, therefore the heart of the sons of men is fully set in them to do evil." (Ecc. 8:11)

    Why will 1,500,000 women have abortions this year? Largely because it has become popular. It is no longer illegal, and it is no longer considered a shameful sin by our society. Every time a woman has an abortion she helps society to become more comfortable with it. She's advertising it! By her example, she's encouraging others to commit the same sin, and other sins as well. The convenience of abortion will only lead to an increase of other sins such as adultery and fornication. Friend, abortion is wrong because abortion encourages sin!

    Abortion Shows A Lack of Faith

    Romans 14:23 says, "...for whatsoever is not of faith is sin." Hebrews 11:6 tells us that without faith it is IMPOSSIBLE to please God.

    To have an abortion is to take matters into your own hands, rather than to trust God to work things out. This shows a lack of faith in God, which the Bible labels as SIN.

    A desperate woman says, "I can't afford to have a child. I'm not ready for this." Lady, you need to start trusting God and claiming His promises. You need to STOP trying to run your own life for a change and START trusting God. You don't need an abortion, for such will only INCREASE your troubles. The devil has you thinking that abortion is the answer, that it will take care of everything, and you're very close to giving in to his subtle temptation. If you do, you'll regret it forever, and God will hold you accountable!

    Also you should perhaps read this verse:
    Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their
    women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way
    the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed
    with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men,
    and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.

    Or this one:
    'If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have
    done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will
    be on their own heads.' (Leviticus 20:13)
    (Romans 1:26-27)

    This is what I believe. It is what it is.

    After spending a lifetime in the US military, I can tell you they are NOT a socialist state. They are more prone to give their own life to protect an innocent life than YOU will ever know. You see, Life is precious. It is the most precious gift we have been given. It is worth defending at all costs. As for disease and sickness consider this...
    One of the babies aborted for the convenience of a one night stand may have held the cure for Cancer, AIDS or any other deadly disease. Another may have grown up to be a brilliant scientist with a solution to world hunger.

    As for weapons and the purchase there of, I believe that if you have a clean criminal record...YOU should be able to own an assault rifle, a M-249 saw or anything else that is not considered crew served. Or permanently mounted in a silo or ship of war.

    As for the economic part of it...look at unemployement statistics during Carter, Clinton and now Obama
    You will soon find that They are generally lower during a republican administration.

    I think that Marriage is a sacred bond between a man and a woman...not some Brokeback Mountain B^&&$#!^.

    What would Jesus do??? Read your bible and find out. He ain't a wimpy God and will be back with some justice and vengeance for all of us who do not toe the line and believe.

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