Which has more stopping power 9mm or .40 Caliber - Page 9
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Thread: Which has more stopping power 9mm or .40 Caliber

  1. Very nice

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  3. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by CustomSatellite View Post
    Very nice
    Thank you.

    And by the way, .30 Carbine that the M1 shoots beats both the 9mm and the .40S&W and is used for self defense. Out to 300 yards. There are also pistol versions and folding stock versions if someone wants to hide one under a coat. The problem would be the use of the 30 round mags. They tend to be a bit bulky. :)
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  4. I want one...

  5. Quote Originally Posted by S&W645 View Post
    PM inbound. I have a rebuilt WW II Rock-Ola M1 Carbine coming once I get back home.
    Attachment 16221
    Would you be able to send me that info?

  6. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikestone967 View Post
    Would you be able to send me that info?
    PM inbound.
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    Normal is an illusion. What is normal to the spider is chaos to the fly.

  7. #86
    since9 Guest
    The term "stopping power" has no precise definition, but the scope is usually bounded, and includes factors such as Kinetic Energy, Momentum, volume of hypovolemic cavity, volume of non-hypovolemic cavity, and many additional factors associated with the human target.

    KE=0.5*m*v^2

    P=m*v

    In order to do a decent comparison, let's take a look at six rounds, three from each caliber, and for accurate comparison, let's use the following considerations:

    - all rounds are from the same manufacturer (Winchester)
    - all rounds are from the same family (Super-X)
    - no +P or +P+ rounds are consider (most machine pistols in ownership are not rated for these rounds)

    Thus, we have the following Winchester rounds, their masses, muzzle velocities, kinetic energy, and momentum:

    1. 9MM LUGER 147 GR. SUPER-X. 1010 fps: KE = 451.36 J / P = 2.93 kg-m/s
    2. 9MM LUGER 115 GR. SUPER-X. 1225 fps: KE = 591.44 J / P = 2.78 kg-m/s
    3. 40 SMITH & WESSON 155 GR. SUPER-X, 1205 fps: KE = 677.44 J / P = 3.69 kg-m/s

    For a proper comparison, I converted all dimensions to SI Units (meters, kilograms, seconds, Joules, and kilogram-meters/second), before calculating the Kinetic Energy and Momentum.

    Findings:

    A. The .40 has 50% more kinetic energy than the 147 grain round, and 30% more kinetic energy than the 115 grain round
    B. The .40 has 26% more momentum than the 147 grain round, and 33% more momentum than the 115 grain round
    C. The .40 is 12.89% wider than the 9mm round
    D. The .40 is 5.44% and 34.78% heavier than the 147 and 115 grain 9mm rounds, respectively

    Conclusion: All things considered, the .40 most certainly has more "stopping power" than either 9mm rounds in its same Super-X family.

    Having said that, other considerations of stopping power include depth of penetration, size of cavity, damage inflicted within and beyond that cavity, resiliency of the victim, and location of the wound.

    A. Depth of penetration: Clearly, if the depth of penetration is 16 inches but the perpetrator's chest is only 10 inches deep, the round will retain a significant portion of it's "stopping power" upon exit. This factor, along with the need to protect bystanders was the primary reason Winchester designed the Silvertip round. At the time, it had one of the least penetration depths of their rounds, and was originally marketed (as have most of their rounds) to law enforcement.

    B. Size of cavity. The only significant measurement is one of total volume, and one cannot consider the maximum expanded volume during entry for the simple matter that if the flesh did not tear, then while it may still have been significantly damaged, it was wasn't necessary destroyed. Only the post-expansion volume indicates destroyed tissue, and it certainly qualifies as having experienced hypovolemic shock (hemmoraging). In fact, it will be a bloody mess.

    C. Extra-cavity impairment and destruction: This is tissue volume outside the resting cavity volume which experienced both hypovolemic shock (hemmoraging).

    D. Resiliency of the victim: Clearly, the same level of destruction in a small individual is going to be more capable of stopping the individual than if the round hits a large person with a lot of both fat and muscle. Some individuals are also great clotters, whereas others might experience profuse bleeding, not only initially, resulting in immediate shock, but also over time, greatly increasing the probability of death. Finally, even two individuals of identical gender, physical proportions, and clotting factors might react very differently due to overall level of physical fitness, age, and general level of health. Even one's mental and emotional status plays a significant role in their likelihood of being stopped by a particular round.

    E. Location of the wound: Clearly, a shot through the center of their face is far more potentially lethal than a shot that hits in the center body mass area but misses any vital organs.

    Bottom line: All things considered (all else being equal), a 155 grain .40 S&W round has considerably more stopping power than either a 115 or 147 grain 9mm round.

  8. #87
    since9 Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by S&W645 View Post
    You know not of what you speak. There are some exemptions in the law. I legally receive firearms directly from an out of state seller without being an FFL any number of times per year. Includes them doing a NICS check first but still delivered directly to the house. Also you can mail a long gun from yourself to yourself in another state as long as the firearm is legal in both states.
    I am very interested in that information, as well. Furthermore, if it's legal, then it's contained in publicly available U.S. Code (CFRs), or departmental policies and directives. Since that information is public, let's not play "secret squirrel" or worry about "political considerations. Please do share it with the rest of us.

    Thank you.

  9. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    I am very interested in that information, as well. Furthermore, if it's legal, then it's contained in publicly available U.S. Code (CFRs), or departmental policies and directives. Since that information is public, let's not play "secret squirrel" or worry about "political considerations. Please do share it with the rest of us.

    Thank you.
    Yes it is in the laws of the US but I will not make it easy for any antis who might be hanging around. We have enough to worry about if she should get elected without giving them a free helping hand. A PM will be sent with the laws quoted.
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  10. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    Bottom line: All things considered (all else being equal), a 155 grain .40 S&W round has considerably more stopping power than either a 115 or 147 grain 9mm round.
    That's overstating it. Yes, a .40 S&W round has more energy and momentum than a 9mm round, but it needs it to have the same amount of penetration at a 2mm larger expansion diameter. .40 S&W has more "stopping power" than 9mm, just not considerably. There have been many attempts to come up with a "stopping power" metric for handguns, but realistically speaking the differences in terminal performance between 9mm, .40 S&W and .45 ACP are minor.

    Which has more stopping power 9mm or .40 Caliber-ammo.jpg

    All service handgun calibers have poor stopping power, which is why the standard argument is to choose the biggest caliber you can shoot fast and accurate with. Two fast hits with a 9mm count more than two slow misses with a .40 S&W. Mindset, skill and gear are the important factors in a gun fight. Most people ignore the first two and go all out nuts on the last.

  11. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by bofh View Post
    That's overstating it. Yes, a .40 S&W round has more energy and momentum than a 9mm round, but it needs it to have the same amount of penetration at a 2mm larger expansion diameter. .40 S&W has more "stopping power" than 9mm, just not considerably. There have been many attempts to come up with a "stopping power" metric for handguns, but realistically speaking the differences in terminal performance between 9mm, .40 S&W and .45 ACP are minor.

    Which has more stopping power 9mm or .40 Caliber-ammo.jpg

    All service handgun calibers have poor stopping power, which is why the standard argument is to choose the biggest caliber you can shoot fast and accurate with. Two fast hits with a 9mm count more than two slow misses with a .40 S&W. Mindset, skill and gear are the important factors in a gun fight. Most people ignore the first two and go all out nuts on the last.
    My results are probably redundant compared to actual ballistics tests between 9's and 40's but the other day when I was shootin' at some stacked 2x6 scraps, it didn't look anything to me like my little 9mm was showing any less mercy than my 40. The only real difference I saw was the 40 would put a round through all three whereas the 9 would go about halfway through the third one. It's a difference but it ain't a whole lot to me.


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