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  1. With UPS I know the driver that serves me the most. Well enough to honk horns and wave to each other.
    With Fed-X The few times they have delivered I never seem to get the same driver twice in a row.

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  3. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by ken grant View Post
    The crime is someone forged my name to receive a package that was not meant for them
    That's not a crime, even if they forge your signature. Parcel services like FedEx are not covered under the same laws that govern US mail.

    When a firearm is lost (stolen) in shipment ,local LE does get involved as well as BATFE.
    Law enforcement doesn't investigate lost packages. And someone other than you signing for your package isn't evidence that a theft took place. People sign for the wrong packages all the time. Most of such instances probably happen because the delivery doesn't give you the package until after you've signed for it. It's quite common for people to sign for the wrong package without realizing they've done so until after the delivery transaction. To my knowledge nobody tracks statistics on it but experienced delivery folks will tell you it happens all the time. If you actually got LE to do something about when they don't have to, then congratulations. But that isn't the norm by any stretch of the imagination.

    It is not the fact they lost a package . It is the fact you can get very little info from Fed-X about it. Even the shipper admits this. Fed-X C.S. shows no more concern about this being a firearm as they would if it was just a book missing.
    That might be because it happens so often. People tend to get complacent about stuff they see regularly.
    Posterity: you will never know how much it has cost my generation to preserve your freedom. I hope you will make good use of it.--- John Quincy Adams
    Condensed Guide To Ohio Concealed Carry Laws

  4. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by bofh View Post
    Someone signed for the package, i.e., certified that he/she is the legal recipient of it. Since the person was not the legal recipient of the package, this person committed theft. Since the package contained a firearm, this person committed felony theft. The driver may have committed a crime as well, depending on the circumstances.
    Sorry, but that isn't correct. It's a violation to deliberately sign for someone else's US Mail package, but not for carriers like FedEx or UPS. And even with the US Mail you still have to have evidence of deliberate intent, which Ken doesn't have.
    Posterity: you will never know how much it has cost my generation to preserve your freedom. I hope you will make good use of it.--- John Quincy Adams
    Condensed Guide To Ohio Concealed Carry Laws

  5. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by ken grant View Post
    With UPS I know the driver that serves me the most. Well enough to honk horns and wave to each other.
    With Fed-X The few times they have delivered I never seem to get the same driver twice in a row.
    They usually remember my dogs because they're always SOOOOO happy to see visitors. We live in the country so they don't see other people very often. One of the regular FedEx drivers brings biscuits with him when he leaves the truck because he knows he's going to get an enthusiastic greeting. Labradors are great.
    Posterity: you will never know how much it has cost my generation to preserve your freedom. I hope you will make good use of it.--- John Quincy Adams
    Condensed Guide To Ohio Concealed Carry Laws

  6. So my firearm is lost ,stolen or missing. Some one signed for it using my name . No telling whose hands it is in now.
    Some one has an illegal stolen weapon that is supposed to be mine .
    The Mfg. filed a missing interstate shipped weapon to the BATFE and the form is for thief/missing firearms .
    Local L.E. is checking out the missing/stolenfirearm.

    And Rhino is saying no laws were broken ?

  7. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhino View Post
    That's not a crime, even if they forge your signature. Parcel services like FedEx are not covered under the same laws that govern US mail.
    Not the same Federal laws perhaps but it's still theft if someone intentionally signs another person's name in order to wrongfully acquire another's possession.

    Law enforcement doesn't investigate lost packages. And someone other than you signing for your package isn't evidence that a theft took place. People sign for the wrong packages all the time. Most of such instances probably happen because the delivery doesn't give you the package until after you've signed for it. It's quite common for people to sign for the wrong package without realizing they've done so until after the delivery transaction. To my knowledge nobody tracks statistics on it but experienced delivery folks will tell you it happens all the time. If you actually got LE to do something about when they don't have to, then congratulations. But that isn't the norm by any stretch of the imagination.
    His package wasn't lost; it was stolen. Person "A" signing the name of Person "B" in order to gain possession of Person "B"'s property without Person "B"'s permission isn't a lawful transaction.

  8. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by ken grant View Post
    So my firearm is lost ,stolen or missing. Some one signed for it using my name . No telling whose hands it is in now.
    Some one has an illegal stolen weapon that is supposed to be mine .
    The Mfg. filed a missing interstate shipped weapon to the BATFE and the form is for thief/missing firearms .
    Local L.E. is checking out the missing/stolenfirearm.

    And Rhino is saying no laws were broken ?
    I'm glad to see that you're finally getting some action. I hope they find your weapon and it's OK.

  9. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhino View Post
    Sorry, but that isn't correct. It's a violation to deliberately sign for someone else's US Mail package, but not for carriers like FedEx or UPS. And even with the US Mail you still have to have evidence of deliberate intent, which Ken doesn't have.
    Sorry, but you are incorrect. This has absolutely nothing to do with laws concerning the USPS. When someone else impersonates you, forges your signature, and takes possession of a shipment from a contract carrier, it is plain fraud and theft. The intent is given by signing for a package that a person is not the recipient of and taking possession of it. The name and address is usually clearly visible on the package. The person taking possession of the package was never part of the contract that the shipper, the recipient and the contract carrier are engaged in. By not immediately returning the package to the shipper, the person engaged in fraud and theft. Since the shipment is a firearm, it is felony fraud and theft. Note that the person took illegal possession of a firearm.

  10. Quote Originally Posted by Rhino View Post
    What crime? So far all he has is a missing package. The police don't investigate missing packages, so Ken is the only person that's going to investigate.

    You won't be purchasing much if you seriously attempt to impose that restriction. UPS doesn't ship firearms from ordinary folks except between "a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector; and (ii) from a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to an individual." That's why practically everyone uses FedEX.
    Really? Because FEDEX has EXACTLY the SAME policy!

    http://images.fedex.com/us/services/...Guide_2016.pdf

    Page 138:

    Any advice-capture.jpg
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

  11. Not to sh!t on anyone's parade but I receive guns all the time from any and all 3 mentioned carriers and I have yet to have one require the addressed name be the sole signature requirement. I'm not going to say it doesn't happen but I haven't seen it after receiving literally 100s of firearms. What it does say is adult signature required. Any adult can sign for the package and they do all the time. If this was a carrier requirement 1/2 the packages in the US would never get delivered. And for the record we occasionally get mistake packages and have even received mistake firearms. They were signed for. They were returned to the carrier unopened and no, I repeat, no crime was committed. This nonsense about a person signing your name has committed some form of criminal act is purely speculation. While it is possible someone knowingly received a package that didn't belong to them, it's equally possible that it was an honest mistake that will be corrected given sufficient time. If, and this is a big if at this point, the person receiving your firearm decides to make it his own and the carrier cannot locate it, you would do 2 things. The first thing would be to file a bona-fide stolen firearm report with your local police agency and the second would to be to file a claim against the insurance policy covering the package. Only at this point would that firearm generate potential criminal charges. Anyone in possession of a firearm reported stolen is committing a felony and could face prison time. Understand, the crime wasn't committed simply by receiving the package.

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